It's time for season two. During this season of The Theory of Marketing Relativity, I'll be taking a deeper dive into some of those hot button marketing topics we covered in season one. So who am I? I'm Epic Marketing Consultant's, Social Media Director and your host Jess Burton. So let's dive right in. Today on our podcast I have with me, Whitney. Whitney, you're one of our well, I should say, my I shouldn't say ours. I should say one of my personal favorite consultants we have here at Epic. And I'm so glad that we could have you back on the podcast.
Whitney:Well, thanks for inviting me, I'm really looking forward to it. It's always fun when we get together and talk about the things that we really care about.
Jess:Absolutely. And I know today we're talking about pitching yourself and not necessarily the baseball kind, even though I think my boyfriend's a big baseball person. And I think this week is like the all star game or was last night. .
Whitney:Yeah absolutely. You know, and that's not a bad place to start. I mean, you know, there's pitching like you do in baseball, but that's basically serving up baseball's to people behind the plate, same sort of thing, you know, if you're pitching yourself or your product or your services, you know, you're trying to serve up the best version of yourself, to the person that you're talking to, but you know, what you think is the best version of yourself, and what they need to hear sometimes aren't the same thing. So, you know, one of the things that I always think about is, is what does the person you you're talking to, what do they need? How can you solve their problems, and if you can talk directly to them, you're going to be a lot more successful in your pitch. But you should go into it, you know, knowing what you want, and, and also what your prospect wants. So, like I said, in our previous podcast that we did, you know, I believe in no random acts of marketing, you should always have a purpose, plan and goal. So if you're going into a meeting with somebody, and you're going to talk to them and talk to them about your idea or your proposal, you want to give them something that's meaningful to them and solves their problems. So, you know, sometimes you don't know sometimes that part of that pitch is a discovery. But a lot of it is all about getting to that bottom, like how can you solve the problems and really work together? If you're doing it too much, like, hey this is me and I'm fantastic. You know, nobody really cares about just bragging about you, if they wanted to do that. They'd go watch the Kardashians on TV. You know, they've got something they want. And let's hope you can fix it, because that means both of you will be successful.
Jess:Absolutely, I think oh my gosh so much good stuff in there. I think that, you know, so much nowadays, especially with like, the way things have been the last like year and a half, there's been a lot of like, cold calling. So like, I know, like personally, like my, like LinkedIn inbox is just always inundated by people I don't know, or people who are like, spamming my spamming my inbox with, hey, let's connect, hey, let's do this. I'm like, I don't even know why you're here.
Whitney:Well, and the problem with really bad cold calls, is that they're not relevant, right? You know, they're not even close. So if you're gonna bother to call somebody or spam them, or whatever, you know, yes, you can do it in bulk, but don't expect it to be effective. You know, it's sort of like, the old days of just sending mail to somebody's house. And, and this is even true of I have a nighttime job. I'm an elected official at night. So when I'm sending out political mail, you know, we know from years of direct mail that they've got about a 1% conversion rate. So why would you not want to have a 20% conversion rate? by just making things a little more meaningful and a little more personable? Why wouldn't you want to have a 50% conversion rate or higher? So you know, if you can take the if it's worth your time to send out all this stuff, and do spray and pray, why isn't it worth your time to send things that are more selective to particular people? So, you know, for example, even the political example is good, because it sort of takes people out of there like, well, I don't have a service or I just have a product or whatever, on appeal, but in politics, you know, what do I want? I want to get elected. I need financial and personal support from people. But what do what does the public need what somebody I've got to send a fundraising letter to or whatever needs. They want competent, caring public officials who are going to use their tax dollars well. You know, that that is their interest, they want something done. They want to believe in what you believe in, you know, but if I'm not making a pitch to them about why this is important, and why they should support me, why should they send me a check? You know, if it's all about hey, look at me and all this is great. No, it should all be about them and what do they need? And what can we do for them? what's what's the vision for the future kind of thing. And this is why you should invest long term. But that exact same thing is true, if you're pitching a product or a software or whatever, you know, somebody needs that to solve a problem to make their business more efficient, or to get more leads or whatever. So talk to their self interest. You know, ask them questions about that, and, and you'll get much better results in the end, you know, so that's the reason why we spend so much time in the marketing world on things like buyers journeys, I really want to know from the salespeople, you know, where do people get seem to get stuck on making a decision? You know, what does it look like? What's all the pieces of information they need to have? You know, what is it? What is it good for? How does it apply to me? does it apply to me now? Or is it in the future doesn't save any money? You answer all of those kind of questions. And you can do that in an education way, we put a lot of that stuff in nurturing emails out to clients and stuff like that, because that way, you've got a lead, and then you can feed them the educational information over time. And really get them to where they want to be.
Jess:No, I definitely agree with you, I think that most people think that pitching is very, like personal. They think, Oh, I have to talk about myself, Oh, I have to talk about. But realistically, pitching is very is very, I don't wanna say the word anti personal, but it is it's about catering what you're about to say to the person that you're speaking to. Um,
Whitney:Yeah, I think we always have to be, you know, whatever you're doing, you have to be really in tune with your audience. Because otherwise, you know, it's, it's just gonna fall on deaf ears. And, you know, have you ever been, like, if you're in a comedy show, and somebody tells a joke, that just is not funny, and just gets all quiet, nobody wants that to happen. So you really want to be engaged. As much as possible, you know, again, it's trying, if you want to make it as much about them as you can, and and less about you, I mean, the parts about you that you're feeding in, there are the ways to help. But if you're trying to talk about their problem, or get information to them about their problem, then it's almost like you're a doctor, and you're trying to diagnose where you can best work together. And, you know, I drew this little two concentric circles, you know, overlapping that says what they want, you know, what we're good at, and then you pitch the stuff that's in the middle that overlaps. Because that's it, you know, you're gonna have a lot of fees, services, a lot of things you can do, but they're not necessarily going to fit everybody. But where they do, you're going to have a good match and a really good working relationship.
Jess:Absolutely. So do you have any high level like tips or tricks when you are like maybe going to a networking event or your I always think it's funny, I always think of like, the connections I make like, because and I get this from my mom, which I hopefully she doesn't hear this. I can talk to anybody anywhere. It's like one of the things that I inherited from her. But do you have any like high level tips of like, what you should include in your pitch about yourself or about your product or about your service when you are talking to somebody?
Whitney:You know, I think so if you're meeting somebody at a networking event in person, you know, oftentimes will be like, Hey, I'm Whitney Hoffman, my day job is in digital marketing. But I have this sidelight, where I'm also Kennett Township Supervisor, what do you do? You know, and, you know, the best things are when you find out more information about somebody else, what their passions are, you ask them questions, you bring stuff out, and then you can say, oh, Jess you know, that's really interesting. Yeah, I'm excited about the fact that you're podcasting. You know, I had a podcast about learning and learning disabilities back in the day. And I found one of the most effective ways to get things going was to make sure that I had really good transcripts, because that helped increase the search engine optimization. What do you do with yours to help get it out there? And you know, if somebody is having a problem with that, they'll say that it's like, oh, well, you know, we've developed this really great way to do X, Y, and Z. So if there's something you particularly want to talk about, you know, have that in mind before you go and then you can kind of turn the conversation that way when you need to.And part of it is just practicing a lot. You know, fortunately, going out and knocking doors for politicians and every campaign with like your extra help is a good way to learn how to just talk to a lot of people in very short ways, not annoy them and get out. It's almost like training grounds for that or go to networking events and go bring a friend. You know, sometimes Having somebody else to play off of in case the conversation gets really awkward and weird is really helpful too. You know, and I think part of it is, you know, sometimes it's hard to be confident in those situations. But you know, going in your favorite outfit, go in, don't drink too much, because then you have a whole different kind of problem on the other side. But, but confidence is what people like, and just keeping it light. And if things get awkward, or they're weird, or whatever, then you know, just kind of move on. And, and that's okay, too. You know, not everybody is going to be your customer. But sometimes, just having those casual conversations, you will find ways that you can kind of work together, or you'll find different opportunities. And if not, now, maybe in the future, you know, I always look for it, like, when people are looking for somebody to work for their company, they may send me the job application, but it may not necessarily be for me, it may be for somebody else in my network. So I'll sit there and I'll look at it. It's like, oh, someone says hiring. Who else do who do I know that I can match them up with because if I can match them up with somebody, I know, that's a win for me for our future to work together as it is for anything else. So you know, if you can do little favors for people, you know, being generous and helpful goes a long, long way. And ultimately, that's what we want to be doing in our businesses every day, anyway, is trying to be helpful and, and generous when we can be and, you know, hopefully people will pay us for it.
Jess:I think you made a great point with not everybody is your customer. Because I think that is a very key thing to keep in mind when you're talking about your business and your your services and all that kind of stuff is that while you might have a great conversation with someone, there might be absolutely no way for you guys to connect on a business level. Um, and finding those benefit business beneficial connections is super important.
Whitney:Right, and I think, you know, here's one weird way to look for it. Let's say there's some kind of food that you really don't like, like in our house, we don't eat a lot of fish, I kind of have the rule, if I can't see the ocean from where I am, I'm not eating, because I'm not sure how long it's been sitting around. So anyway, whenever we go into a restaurant, and they start reading off the specials, and it's the fish ones, you know, they are marketing to the wrong audience, they can tell me how scrumptious it is, I am not biting, it just doesn't matter. And I'm just like, you could just skip the seafood entries and get down to everything else, and we will have a much better conversation. But that's it, you know, they're never going to sell me, the soul of the day, or whatever it is, regardless of what they do. So, you know, if you're pitching something to somebody, you know, it's like, and you haven't had a pre conversation, you don't even know if they're in your industry, you're just randomly sending stuff out. It's like pitching peanut butter sandwiches to people who are allergic to peanut butter when it's just bad news, and it doesn't help anybody. You know, and sometimes it offends people, so it's not good. So, you know, I think you get, you get more bang for the buck for doing your homework first. Think about the audience that you're really going to be in front of, you know, it's the reason why you don't want to buy lists. I mean, you're doing a whole lot of work, and not getting a whole lot out of it. And, you know, if I wanted those kind of odds, I'd play the lottery every day. Just taking a little time and curating to a smaller list gives you a better chance of success. It will make you feel better, the people that you're pitching to will feel like they're getting something that's meaningful and somebody thought about them and done a little homework, you know, there's nothing worse than getting an email that says, Dear, you know, insert name here because they didn't put in the personalization. Or, you know, my name is Whitney and they put in Wendy or William or somebody else or you know somebody's name all together because it got mismatched on a form somewhere. You know, that stuff is just, it's painful because it starts out on the wrong foot. It's like walking into a room and farting before you shake hands. I mean, it's just not a good idea.
Jess:That is so true. That like that cracks me up because there are there there have been networking things where it's along the same lines of like,you know, someone shirt does all the talking before you walk up to them and you're like, oooh, that's a choice. I'm about
Whitney:Let's talk about a couple bad networking things. So like networking event, and they decided to be really cool. They put QR codes on the lanyards. Right. But that meant that in order to shoot the picture of the lanyard and get the postcard that every guy in the room was coming up with their cell phone straight to every woman's chest. It was bad news. So I mean, you know, look good in theory. Okay, but guys planning for only one sex to be in the room and women just don't really like it when people come up to their chest with the cell phone right there enough problems, we're sitting there and say, Hey, they don't talk to begin with without adding that piece of loveliness into it. So, I mean, you know, think about stuff like that, um, you know, networking should be fun I in Chris, Chris Brogan used to always say like, hey, you know, networking event, I'm trying to shake your hand, you know, and if people are too aggressive, too soon, it's like, you know, you're, I'm trying to shake your hand or you're trying to stick your tongue down my throat, you know, this is not good. I mean, there is this whole sense of like, come on, slowly get to know people. And again, you know, don't feel like you've got to do it all and close the deal and networking event. That's not what the networking event is for The networking event is so you get to know more people. And essentially, it's like creating a library of resources. You know, you should look at networking as a way to get to know other people knew what's there. And from a selfish person point of view, rather than necessarily thinking like, I've got to go in there and find a client, think about it as, wow, I can go in there and find out what else everybody is doing. So if I need help, this is who I can talk to. So I think if you change the frame a little bit about how you approach those events, and look at it as more like, you know, shopping at the grocery store and seeing if you can find things that you want, that's probably a better thing, rather than going in there with a really aggressive like, I'm going to come out of here with five business cards and three clients. Good luck and mazel, I am awful, you know, I hope it works for you. But you know, probably not right?
Jess:Absolutely. I think that definitely this has, like virtual networking events have definitely changed the way I view networking, and pitching myself and pitching Epic and even just talking about myself. Um, I think that, you know, it is it's almost like your business meet cute, like how you start that conversation about what you do. And hey, it might not mean that, like, you're coming to me for marketing, but like, you know, on the side, like, I am a I coach High School, you know, baton twirling, and you might be looking for help getting your high schooler involved in something. And even if I can't help you with marketing, I can totally help you with that. Um,
Whitney:Yeah, I mean, maybe, you know, a great dentist, and it turns out, you know, you never know, I mean, people need a lot of different things in their lives. And if you can be helpful, then when they need something that you can do, they're more likely to give you a call, because you've already helped them out with something else. You know, relationships are, you know, it's like a net, a, you know, it's little bits together. Little tiny pieces, they build up to something bigger over time. But you know, rarely do you go from zero to 60. It has to do with there's, there's a lot of that kind of, you know, first second third date kind of thing before you get into anything really serious.
Jess:Absolutely. Whitney, thank you so much for joining me. Hopefully, we can have you back again sometime soon.
Whitney:Absolutely. And I really do love the aspect of you know, business meet cute. That is fantastic.
Jess:Right? I Who was it? I was on? I was I.. This is like such a tangential thing. We were at trivia. And it was like one of the questions was like, What is it term for like, the initial meeting of something and I was like, meet cute. It's a meet cute.
Whitney:Yeah.
Jess:And everyone at the table was like, What are you talking about? And I'm like, No, I'm like, I use this term all the time. So yeah, it's one of those ones I'm trying to work back into my vocabulary.
Whitney:Because it's like running into the guy with the puppy at the park. Right. Everybody needs a meet cute. And I think if you approach all those networking events as a meet cute opportunity, it's going to be good.
Jess:Absolutely. So if people want to get in touch with you, whether they live in your almost a jurisdiction, is that the right? Or if they want you to consult for them, how can they reach you?
Whitney:I mean, the best way to get ahold of me is Whitney@minglemarketing.com M-I-N-G-L-E -M-A-R-K-E-T-I-N-G.com. That's my email. If you want to read my ridiculous blog, it's Whitney Hoffman.com You can find me at Whitney Hoffman. On Facebook. I'm pretty easy to track down. My only other pseudonym is LD podcast because I used to run a podcast about learning and learning disability. So please reach out I'd love to be helpful in any way we can. And again, just think about it you know, it's more about your audience than it is about you and and you'll do great
Jess:Awesome. Thank you so much Whitney.
Whitney:Oh, hey, thanks so much, Jess. I really appreciate it.
Jess:Thank you all for tuning in this week. We hope this theory is relative to your marketing needs. Make sure you subscribe to get notified of our latest episodes.