Hello, and welcome to the theory of marketing relativity podcast. I'm Jess Burton, a marketing specialist here at Epic Marketing Consultants Corporation. Let's talk all things marketing and merchandising with our Epic team. Our guest this week on our podcast is Jenni Jones. Jenny handles all of the marketing and college recruitment for Belfint Lyons and Shuman CPAs, here in Delaware. Welcome to our podcast.
Jenni:Thank you for having me.
Jess:I'm very excited to talk about recruitment and using using social media for recruitment, but just recruitment in general. Um, I know, this past year especially has been, I'm sure very tricky, not being able to go to college campuses, go to job fairs, not being able to, like meet people in, in mass in person.
Jenni:It was very different. I mean, I specifically concentrate on college recruiting at the firm, although I do help our experienced hire recruiter. But this year, not it was like the trifecta where the recruiters were learning a new system through remote recruiting, the colleges had to quickly ramp up and get this method happening. And then also, the students were having to do virtual recruiting for the very first time. So all three of us were learning it at the same time.
Jess:I can definitely see that that is a definitely one of those very large hills to climb. I know my boyfriend was, was looking for jobs at one point. And he was like, should I be alarmed that this company, they interviewed him several times. And then he said, Should I be alarmed that they're all using different platforms to interview me. And I just kind of laughed because I was like, honestly, I was like, we use so many different platforms, because sometimes it doesn't work with certain emails, it doesn't work with certain stuff, it has definitely been a lot of trial and error the last almost over a year.
Jenni:It was good, though, I think I was happy to see how quickly the colleges could ramp up and adapt and then get the students on board. Because just like you mentioned, it was something completely different for students where they're used to walking into the big gymnasium and being able to just walk up to the different companies that they wanted to talk to. So, but it all worked out.
Jess:That's awesome. So tell me tell us a little bit about how you guys on a big, big picture level and then narrowed down to find to recruit from colleges. And even before that, because you guys have a program for high school students as well.
Jenni:So we do. I think if you like you said you take it to that higher level, where our firm where we have a few different goals when it comes to recruiting. So of course, at the end of the day, we're always looking for the best talent for our firm. But we actually have much bigger picture ideas in mind. We're very passionate about building the talent pipeline in the state of Delaware. So that is something that we work with different organizations, and we participate with Intern Delaware to really help talent in Delaware. So that students aren't coming here to the University of Delaware and then quickly exiting to New York City or Philadelphia, that we're holding talent here. We're also very passionate about our industry. So over the years, the number of students that declare accounting as a major has decreased. So we're really trying to build relationships with students as early as high school to show them that public accounting is a very rewarding and viable career path and trying to figure out maybe what the disconnect is why they're not declaring accounting as a major to move forward to become a CPA. Of course, we're focused in public accounting. And then we're looking at the end of the day to build relationships for students that want to do an externship with us and an internship and then become a staff accountant with us and hopefully go all the way from staff accountant to ownership, which is a very easy, not easy career path, but it is a career path at our firm. We tease our managing director is the longest standing intern ever; he interned with our firm in the 80s and is now our Managing Director.
Jess:If that isn't like a recruiting or like hiring success story, I don't know what is. That's crazy. We I, I being a millennial, I talk all the time with a lot of my friends about how it almost seems like nowadays, it's very hard to find a company that is very, there's very promotional from within, and you guys do a phenomenal job of that. I know, there are times where like, because I am also local to Delaware, I actually know like some of your employees. And I like secretly I'm like, Oh, yeah, they got a promotion. Um, because I know we've I've talked about with people how like, sometimes it's less climbing the ladder, I call it climbing the ladder and scaling the wall. So like you climb the ladder straight up. But you're scaling the wall in a diagonal, crisscross and like pattern. So I think it's great that you guys do kind of invest in your potential employees even before they've declared that they want to be accountants. I know for me personally, the reason I didn't become an accountant was because math was not my strong suit. And it was always told to me that math was important to be an accountant. Statistics were never my strong suit. So we just stayed away from anything that had anything to do with numbers.
Jenni:I hear ya; remember, I do the marketing and recruiting. I am not an accountant.
Jess:You get to make accounting look fun. It is fun.
Jenni:It is fun.
Jess:I think if you I think if you like, I always think of like forensic accounting, one of my friends is a forensic accountant. And it cracks me up because she's like, you'd be crazy some of the stuff you can find, I'm like in numbers?
Jenni:Absolutely. We actually have a few CFPs, which are for fraud examiners on board here, and they find some things every once in a while. And that's of course, when you're in college. That's what sounds so exciting. But we actually, we talk to students often about tying in whatever that passion is, or whatever they really like with their career. So for instance, an example is we have a big nonprofit service line. And people who have just want to give back to the community are always feel like they're wanting to help nonprofits, they can do that as CPAs. Where we're out there just trying to not only do the compliance work, but help them run better organizations. So you can tie in that passion, whatever it is. It could be Europe, you know, a fashion designer, you have a fashion interest or retail interest or restaurant interest. And you can be a CPA, and help those industries.
Jess:I think that's, that's like such a good point. I tell people all the time that like I'm an expert in a lot of things, because like running social media accounts, like you learn people's businesses almost as well as they know them. There are, there are things like I never thought that I would ever know about. But there are times where like people will be talking about stuff will be out of the restaurant. Oh, did you know that um, you know, dissolved oxygen in a pond contributes to the growth of algae? And people are like, What are you talking about? But it is it's one it's one of those positions where you can still kind of learn a lot, but still stay in your niche.
Jenni:Absolutely. And then you're enjoying it too.
Jess:Absolutely. Um, so as a recruiter are there when you're kind of when you're interfacing with college students, is there a skill or talent or something that people just forget that they have that you guys maybe look for, or think that they should promote better?
Jenni:So I always when I'm talking with college students, I always want them. I talk more on a mentor side a lot. I say let me take my recruiting hat off and let's just kind of brainstorm ideas for searching for a job or for interviewing and just kind of taking a deep breath and always thinking of an interview as a conversation. But then also be really proud of what you do, and be able to tell a story about what you do or or the question that's being asked rather than just yes or no answers. Because a lot of times, we're looking especially in college at the college level, we're looking for critical thinkers, problem solvers, and this taking initiative. Intuitive. Those are the types of maybe qualities we're looking for. We know that they're accounting majors, we know that they are able to do well on in their classwork. And then of course when they intern with us, we're able to see how they're able to apply some of that and and use some of their critical thinking. But when during the interview process, you can kind of answer a question in a way that shows the way each person's mind thinks. And everyone brings something to the table, honestly. So to be confident in the answer they're giving, and helping the recruiter visualize what they're saying, I think is, is helpful. I, it's interesting, because they're not they're nervous, you know, everybody's nervous an interview is everybody's nervous. So if you just really think of it as a conversation, and then be proud of what you're able to share, it will work out.
Jess:I, that's great advice. I know, I way back when, before I worked for Epic, and I had to go to job interviews. I know that it was funny because as aside from this is my full time job, I also coach high school marching band. And I know that I always joke that more times than not, whoever was interviewing me, almost cared less about my actual nine to five job and more about all of the situations that accumulated from that, like after school coaching job. And it is funny, because I will say I have learned a lot of life skills, because high schoolers will do that to you.
Jenni:I got one, I hear you.
Jess:They teach you things you didn't even know that you needed to know. But yeah, it is. It's very, it is very true. And I remember just being like nervous in job interviews. I think it never goes away that nervousness, but I think being confident in who you are, and your experiences. And your education is such a good point.
Jenni:Absolutely. I mean, everyone has something to share. And to just kind of tell the story around it is so important.
Jess:Absolutely. So when you're interviewing people, do you, I'm trying to like get inside your head, like how a recruiter thinks? Do you ever like visualize how this person fits in with your current team? Do you, how do you kind of make it fit? How do you put the pieces together to figure out who's going to work best in the position within the team that you guys already have? If that question made sense.
Jenni:It does make sense. That's a that's a hard one to answer. I, our interview process is a multi step process. So I conduct the first round interviews. And then we have a whole second round set of interviews as well that are with two, two of our CPAs. So they're much stronger, to see that technical side, about picking up certain how they'd be able to transfer book knowledge into real world career experience. I think something that I'm always looking for is, again, more than just one word answers and the ability to talk, talk, tell a story through their answers. I want to, I'm always wondering, in 10 years, or five years, or whatever it is, if I can see them in front of a client. But again, I do think that everyone has something that they can contribute. So we don't really have a box that we're looking for, I guess you could say. Everyone can bring something to the table. I don't think that I'm not sure if that really answered your question.
Jess:It was it's a very, I don't even know that I asked it correctly. But yeah, I think it did. Yeah, I think it's more just kind of like what Yeah, like what? What do you got? What on your end do you look for when you're looking to fill positions? So yeah, I think you answered it. Sounded good to me. Um, have there any, have there been any surprising places you found talent like in the grocery store chatting someone up in like the line while you wait for someone in their massive BJs order or like something? Have there been any unexpected places that you've connected with someone that you eventually hired?
Jenni:So as my kids say, I will talk to anyone so apparently I talk to a lot of people when we're out. So I have actually been to restaurants where I end up talking to the waitress and turns out she's an accounting major at some local university so I will, I have passed my card or or tried to connect that way. I even wrote a blog one time called "You Just Never Know" 'cause I know for on the marketing side, I was at my kid's t ball game. This was a super long time ago, this example. And you just end up talking to the parents next to you and turns out they own a business and we you know, you just never know what connection you might have. So I think the restaurant one was probably my most, you know, surprising, although something that I have a passion for actually is a lot of like search engine optimization, or you, of course, you guys help with social media and geo fencing. So we have done as a firm a few initiatives with different types of recruiting that have drawn people into our website and had them act. So the call to action of applying or reaching out. And so that I love, I love learning the background of what people are searching Google searching, what they're sorry, searching on Google, to get to our website. So we really make sure that our careers section is optimized for people we want to draw in. For example, our industry, it's tough to get experienced hires, it's a tough area to get anyone with five or more years of experience. So we're always hoping that the person relocating to our area, and they're a CPA, they're going to Google, you know, CPA firms in the Delaware area, I actually optimized for the Philadelphia area so that we're pulling in people who are relocating around us. And we have hired a few people that way where they were relocating.
Jess:I think I love the brunt of SEO, because that, like Google searches are a black hole that you can just fall into. It is crazy sometimes to see...like for you guys, like a hiring journey, like how someone got to your website, like, there are some times where I will literally think How on earth did that end up here? And how like, and why did that happen, not just once, not just twice, but three times.
Jenni:Yup.
Jess:But I think that is another big a big one. I know at least for my experiences traipsing around the internet, a big thing is like match it is when you're writing resumes or you're writing your LinkedIn, you should match some of the verbiage to job applications. And I think it's important to note that it goes the other way that if you guys are recruiting for people, you need to be optimizing your SEO for what jobseekers are searching for. It's like that like mirror effect of like, well, everybody's gonna eventually connect eventually, but you have to know where you're going.
Jenni:And it's always changing. That's what's so fun. It's never you don't do it and set it. There's this phrase, things are always changing. And we're so we're trying, we try and keep on top of that as much as possible. And then of course, we've done social media advertising campaigns. We have coupled that with print, you know, social media, and geofencing all at the same time. So we've tried a few different things. And honestly, a lot of it's timing. It just depends on what hits, marketing and recruiting, sometimes you just throw throw an idea at a wall and hope something sticks. And sometimes you're surprised at what does generate more buzz than something else. But that's why you can do A/B testing on some of your ads, which I think is very helpful. You can change something as simple as a picture or one word in your ad and it will make a big difference.
Jess:That is always that's probably one of my this is such a nerdy thing. One of my like, favorite things about like ads is like a lot. I'm very I love imagery, like imagery can like make or break a campaign. I know it sounds weird, like people are like, I know it sounds ridiculous to some people but other times I'm like, No, like there I have a picture in my head and exists somewhere on a stock image website on the internet. I just have to find it. But we like we had a client who, again, like you guys was running, they're running hiring ads. And we found a great image who just says we are hiring. And it's like a sign in a window. I we use we've used that multiple times because it just does so much better than anything else. I've tried it with different copy. I've tried it with different images, that image for some reason. I'm like, what about this thing? Because I've even tried ones that are pretty close, where they have like maybe they're zoomed out a little bit. Maybe it's a little bit different. I'm like okay, well this image is worth its weight in gold, but yeah, it is very, the A/B testing is super helpful, especially when you're working with something like recruiting and SEO and all that fun, fun stuff that changes.
Jenni:Well, and that's what's nice, too. You're talking now on towards your, the analytic side as you're always able to analyze what you're doing and tweak it. So you can read go by the numbers go by what the analytics are telling you.
Jess:Absolutely it, I, and it definitely, it always there are things that like make me smile, like when I can see on a landing page, like a web, like a page that like has all of your job applications housed, that like there's a lot of hits, there's a lot of traffic, what are people clicking on all of that, because then you're like, Okay, we're doing something right here, like we need to get, we need to close the deal soon, but we're getting somewhere. That's always some great feedback.
Jenni:And then I mean, of course, you want to have a, say you do get where people are coming to your site. And you can see that traffic coming. And then someone does apply and you're interviewing, and then you want to make sure that you have all that tools in place for their validation stage too. So again, your careers page on the website, or the social media and the various other ranking sites, where students or anyone, honestly, who's interviewing once they get to a certain point are going to validate the company through those means.
Jess:100%. Jenni, thank you for being on our podcast this week. If people want to reach out to you to chat about recruitment or if they know someone who needs a CPA job or a CPA internship, externship the whole nine yards, where can they reach you?
Jenni:I'd love for anyone interested, they can reach out on LinkedIn. And I my LinkedIn has my maiden name as my middle name. So it's Jenni Fleck Jones. And it's Jenni with an I Fleck Jones. So it's kind of easy to get to that way.
Jess:Awesome. Well, thank you so much for joining me.
Jenni:Thank you. This was so fun.
Jess:Thank you all for tuning in this week. We hope this theory is relative to your marketing needs. Make sure you subscribe to get notified of our latest episodes.