Hello, and welcome to the Theory of Marketing Relativity podcast. I'm Jess Burton, a marketing specialist here at Epic Marketing Consultants Corporation. Let's talk all things marketing and merchandising with our Epic team. Today, my guests are Epic's, Corporate Director Ann Manley and Senior Copywriter Sheryl Silberberg. Welcome back to our podcast.
Ann Manley:Thanks for having me.
Jess:I'm excited because I have two people instead of just one. So I'm very intrigued to see how this goes.
Ann Manley:Me too, me too; I'm excited.
Jess:I just love to see your beautiful faces. As we all have like day 87 of no wash hair day.
Sheryl:You look awesome.
Jess:You gotta try on a Friday.
Ann Manley:It was hard trying today.
Jess:Right? Oh, I know. Here it's like gross and well it's funny because we the three of us span such an expanse across the East Coast. I've got like ice and you said you had rain, Sheryl; I'm sure you have more snow than all of us combined.
Sheryl:We got some good snow this time.
Jess:We just have like the slippery death trap that is ice.
Ann Manley:Fun.
Jess:I know. It's so great living on
Ann Manley:There's gonna be video of you walking to the car.
Jess:I just like I do this little like baby ski, like with my feet. So I don't like slip and fall like my feet never leave the ground. It's honestly probably I'm sure my I'm sure somebody has a video somewhere of me doing it.
Sheryl:I would pay to see that.
Ann Manley:Like the grandma shuffle
Jess:it is. And that I'm living on the east coast in the north. Yeah. So all of that aside, um, we are here to chat a little bit about like and love and hearts and laugh cry faces and all the different kinds of reactions that you can have on social media and what they mean.
Ann Manley:I'm excited for this podcast because so much has come out about emojis, but I just I just I love I love love. No, I I love the reactions on Facebook. And I'm so you know, so much older that I remember Facebook young, when it was just the thumbs up.
Jess:Yeah, I I think that like branching out into the different reactions has definitely allowed people to voice their feelings without using so many words. I know like I think was it like the beginning of the pandemic they came up with that like care emoji that's like an emoji hugging a little heart.
Sheryl:Because it used to be, you know, for personal use, somebody would would have lost a family member or something and they would say how sad they are and people would like it. Because there was no you know, people were trying to show that they were, you know, understanding how the person felt. So they liked it and I'm sure they didn't really like it.
Ann Manley:It's one of those things where people talking about their parent passing away and you're like, I can't believe that person just liked that my parent passed away.
Jess:Especially because you know, they're probably just like, it's like their ways. Like I'm here for you like I'm here but it looks weird.
Sheryl:Exactly.
Jess:Oh, I know I think yeah, the like, and then with all the Gen Zers telling us that the laugh cry emoji is not cool anymore. Along with side parts and skinny jeans, but that's another story.
Ann Manley:Well, I'm gonna agree with the side part but I'm not a side part person. So I've never had a side part, but I am legit wearing my ultra skinny jeans today and will forever wear them.
Sheryl:but it's so crazy that like emojis are trendy or not trendy. You know? Yeah
Jess:I saw somebody said something about like, it was basically saying that like the millennials who like the Gen Zers are coming after about the laugh cry emoji and the side parts and the skinny jeans like how did we how did like the millennials identify like their parents' generation. Like I think about like my mom's high waisted mom jeans and her straight leg pants and her super like teased hair. She permed it so many times I'm like you don't need a perm. And just like certain like fashion statements and like, the things she does like she like, like the one of her signature things is like she'll say she's gonna tack Mac like, whereas I'm like, I'm gonna go to the ATM. I don't know what that means
Ann Manley:She's going to go to the Mac machine. She's going to hit the Mac.
Jess:And like somebody said that like, well, that's how Gen Zers will identify you and they need help for your side parts, your skinny jeans and your use of the laugh cry emoji.
Sheryl:So an emoji can age you. It can date you.
Jess:Yeah.
Ann Manley:Yes. Sheryl, as Gen Xers we're still friendly enough to millennials to help them. Because I feel like we still care more. We're as our parents boomers, they're like, they're just like, get off my lawn. So a get off my lawn emoji.
Sheryl:Tonight, you can identify a generation by the emojis they use.
Ann Manley:Yeah. or lack thereof.
Jess:Yes. Yes, or all caps. I noticed that like some of my older relatives who should not be on social media, will post in the comments. And like, all of it is in all caps. And like my head reads that as like you're screaming at me.
Sheryl:Oh my god, as a writer, that is such a peeve of mine. The all caps, like stop it, it is just completely yelling.
Jess:What I don't understand yet is why we don't have like, why you can click caps lock on your keyboard, and it'll like make everything capitalized. But if you highlight it, and then unclick caps lock, why it doesn't make it all lowercase again.
Sheryl:Yeah, you should write into somebody about that.
Jess:I should, like hello.
Ann Manley:It was like, dense and start coding
Jess:I was gonna use a coder who kind of code that into my keyboard because I was saying...Anyway, back to everything. Um, so with reactions and stuff like that, it is always funny to me when I see like certain posts or like when we do paid ad spends for some of our clients like looking at the different ways people react because people don't just like it like they'll love it. I always am very confused when we do like a we're hiring post and there's a bunch of like, angry or like the cry that the crying I'm like, Why? Why are you sad about this? Why are you angry about like, what is this emotion?
Ann Manley:I'm always curious I know when I do a post I am one of those people that I will go in to check to see like separate my likes the hearts the wows the I and see who did what, like who took the extra step to hold it, hold the like button in and have the and have the little emojis pop up to see who gave us gave us the heart who gave us the wow. You know and who's angry and then I'm like, dude, why are you why are you angry? Like it's just my kid playing?
Sheryl:Yeah, right who goes the extra mile? You know what makes it worth it to the person to do it like what is the topic of what have you that's driving the reaction?
Jess:Yeah. I always I like I who was it one of my friends. She sells like she makes her own little like craft stuff, sells it on Etsy has her own Instagram. And I was like talking to her one time and she like because she had messaged me She's like, thank you so much for always commenting and liking my stuff and you know, all that stuff. And I'm like, Oh, I get it. Like I understand how like the Facebook algorithm works. And that like if they see that people are interacting with your stuff, they're more likely to share it to people who are similar to like me, like I have shopped with her before I bought plenty of earrings from her. But like it is funny because I now own like on certain pages I have become the proud owner of a gajillion top fan badges. So like if I post next time I
Ann Manley:I get excited I like will screen shoot when I get the top fan thing and I send it to to my friend like I'm like I'm your top fan! I've read way too much about the Facebook algorithm literally today and yesterday working on things for Nancy. It's crazy how the new Facebook algorithm is going to fit in with all the reactions and comments and shares and getting the getting the likes for your content and if you're gonna and how much you're gonna have to pay to get for it to be seen. So it's gonna be tricky. I think these first few months of navigating the new the new algorithm with how, the reactions
Jess:I always it's funny, when we talk to like clients who like, based on their social media knowledge, I always tell people I'm like, you can't like not all reactions, much like science are equal, like, alike is not the same, it's not weighted the same as a love. It's not weighted the same as a comment. It's not weighted the same as a share. So I'm always like, think of like a like, as like, you know, your friend like clapping for you. I was like, think of a love as like them clapping for you and saying, Hey, this is Ann, you should meet her, you know, and then I say, think of a share as like someone saying, Hey, this is my friend Ann, she's a great photographer, here's her number, you should book her. So I was like, they're not all created equal. And they're all and the algorithm reads them all differently. So that certain ones give you more like, I always call it bump, they give you more bump than like, if everybody was just going to like your posts. Yes, if you have 100 likes, that's awesome. But if you have 50 likes, and 25 loves and 10 shares, Facebook says, Oh, that's even better because people think your content is worth sharing, they think it's worth loving, they think it's worth commenting on.
Sheryl:And I love, I love that you just compared it to, you know, watching a show or something because it's almost like someone easily clicking a like, it's almost just like they're trying to be polite. You know, they see something like, Oh, sure, you know, it's no time out of my day, it seems like the right thing to do, you know, click, I'll just like it. But they're not giving it any thought, you know, they're not putting any time or thought into it. And if you do the other things, if you share it or whatever it means that you're really doing more than just being polite. Like it means something to you.
Jess:Exactly, I know, because it does, it takes like time is something you never get back. So if you take the 30, the 30 seconds, it takes to like comment, like, share, not even 30 seconds, I think you can probably do it in 15 if you really tried, you know, that tells like the algorithm. I feel like I need to like get that on a shirt or something. It tells the algorithm that like your content is worth more than somebody else's. But there's also but like, and this is another one of my favorite analogies. But it's also not like a pie, like you're not taking away from anybody, you're just yours is like it's like a race, like you're getting a little more ahead than they are.
Sheryl:And that's why, you know, sometimes no matter what kind of client, we're dealing with, whatever their product or services, sometimes they're so inclined to just want to post things that are all self promotional. Look, you know, look, these are our products, this is what we offer. Now we have a new service and that's important sometimes, but that's why we're always telling clients, you really need a lot of just informative content in your mix. We need to just show that you know, your industry and you're sharing something newsy in the industry that's happening, you know, or other things to think about that are going on in your field. But if you try to just shove self promo, you know, as the whole mix in your, in your posting, people are gonna get turned off, and you know, that it makes me crazy and that's why we tell people to do it.
Ann Manley:Sheryl I love that you brought that up, because you bring that up all the time for us when we are creating content. I also love that you said you weren't gonna have anything to say today. No, but it's true. It's like if I see too much promotional stuff, I'm just gonna start. I just continue to scroll but 100% agree with you and my friends post something. Yeah and you click like, I'm just, it is the be polite, okay, I acknowledge that that happened to you. Okay, keep going, keep going, keep going, you know, but if I'm going to click the more button to read whatever it is, that's, you know, being put in front of me, I feel like, I've already taken the time to read this, or watch this video. And then, so I'm going to add a little more, you know, to to it, I'm not just going to hit the like and go. So, but if I'm not watching the video, if I just see something I'm like, eh, but I'll acknowledge just you're acknowledging it's your head nod. It's your head nod.
Sheryl:Right. I love that.
Jess:Yeah. I think it's, it's funny, like when we, whenever I get whenever people decide that they want to do social media, like we have clients who like we've had for a while and they're like, we need to do social media. And like Flora will be like, Hey, can you let me know what's going on here? And I'll like there are times, I'll call her and I'll be like, what is this? What did you send me? Like, what do you mean? And I'm like, this has nothing to do with anything. And like, I hate doing social media audits, like even just like cursory glances at like a social at like a Facebook page or Instagram page. I was telling someone, maybe another podcast or maybe it was a call with a client. But there are like certain things that I look for, to tell whether the person doing their social is like, has no idea what they're doing kind of has an idea or like, this is going to be fun, because you actually know what you're talking about. And one of them is like, if you can follow like a thought process. So like I always say, I always look for posts that get a lot of reactions whether they're likes, their love their comments, the whole nine yards. And if you capitalize on that, so say, we're a marketing company, we have a post that goes off the charts, because we say something along the lines of like, I don't even know, and I can't even think of an example. I feel like it's harder to think of examples for us than it is to think of the examples for other things. Okay, how about this one, we have a lot of financial institution clients, that might work better. That's my wheelhouse. So, there might be like a post on, you know, targeted towards like my age demographic. So like millennials about like buying a home, or having a home buyer seminar that's focused on like purchasing during a pandemic. And it goes crazy, like, the imagery is great, the copy's great, it gets a ton of traction. Then you use that, to kind of trickle it and see how you can get those kind of reactions. So like I've seen pages were like, okay, that did really well so you can tell that they chose a very similar image, and a very similar copy to promote another event. And that posted really well. So you can tell that, okay, this person is watching their trends, and they're seeing what their audience is participating in. And then there are some times where I'm like, I look at a page and I'm like, national hop in a puddle day. What does that have to do with accounting? Like, so it is, they're polar opposites. But like, one of the things that I do look at is engagement in the like, in their audience and how their audience engages with them. And how they use that to create to...but like, they use that to facilitate a, you know, group of followers that engages with their page and their content.
Sheryl:And, and that just reminded me, we have a client, that's a medical provider. And, you know, they, they post information that's informative to, you know, for certain health issues. And, and they do well, sometimes they get good engagement, but nothing, you know, makes their reactions go from likes to love more than when we post photos of people on their team. And those get the hearts literally, we know ahead of time, and we have those scheduled that those posts are going to get all the hearts, because it's all about, you know, like the family vibe, and the photos do well and it's about the people. So sometimes that helps also, regardless of what you know who the client is, if you start posting about your team and your people and focus on that, like human side of things, a lot of times that just makes you get more loves than the likes because people care about people.
Ann Manley:I absolutely agree with that. I feel like anytime we're going to have that kind of any type that posts go up, I turn the notifications off on my phone, my iPad, because I know, I know my notifications are gonna explode when when we get personal with some of our clients and the more and more I read of what kind of content is going to get the engagement and get the likes and the loves, especially in 2021, it is getting personal, getting, showing your team showing the love of your work. All of all of that is what is trending because 2020 was so much about just a pandemic and an election and so much negativity that people really want to see the positive things going on with the things that they love. So I love when I see brands who are getting personal and they're showing the story showing the stories of everyday men and women and that just gets way more reactions than if it is a celebrity or somebody so I feel like just being more personable, more personal and real on social is how you're going to get people to take that extra second and hold that like button in to to get the engagement on social.
Sheryl:Very true.
Jess:Very, very true. So I have a question for both of you. Do you guys have a favorite social media reaction like to use?
Sheryl:That we use?
Jess:Yes that you personally like to use.
Sheryl:You know I can be stingy with a love, I guess.
Ann Manley:You can be stingy with a love.
Jess:Sheryl's just liking everything. You really gotta knock the socks you to get a love.
Sheryl:You gotta make it worth my while to get a heart. Although not on Instagram, right, because, you know, that has the hearts I guess. I guess I'm talking about Facebook. I don't know. I that's a good question. I mean, on Facebook, I guess I use like more than anything. If something can make you laugh, that's, you know, that's worth showing.
Ann Manley:I'm a little like Sheryl, I'm a liker. If I'm just like, if I'm doing like quick scroll, but if I'm gonna, if I invest my time in your posts, I'm gonna I'm gonna heart it or I'm gonna laugh or I'm gonna wow, it. I rarely ever use angry. I feel like if something makes me angry, I just don't use anything.
Sheryl:Right.
Ann Manley:I don't know why I just, I'm just like, I think I'm just like, Alright, this annoyed me. I'm just gonna keep scrolling.
Sheryl:Yeah, but you know, if I have, I have stopped following businesses when they got too self promoey. Like, for me, that's real. If there's a local business, and they've done something good for the community, especially with COVID in the past year, we've had if if, you know, even near where I live, if you've done something beyond what your business is and you've donated, whatever, whatever, you're going to get a heart from me. You know, it has to really mean something. But I really appreciate humor. I'll give you a laugh if it's, you know, if it's made me think it's something funny.
Jess:Yeah, I get to I get caught up like I'll be scrolling Instagram and like, obviously on Instagram, you can like double tap just to like it. And then I'll go to like Facebook, and I'll be trying to like doubletap stuff and it doesn't work.
Ann Manley:I really wish Facebook would get in on the on some of the double taps because that makes like Instagram like, but then sometimes I'm like, Oh, crap, I didn't mean to heart that. It's just because I was scrolling accidentally. I'm like crap. I didn't mean to like that.
Jess:I think I probably use the like love and like the left, though with no luck.
Ann Manley:And Twitter's only a heart right?
Jess:Yeah.
Ann Manley:Or is it? Or is it just the I need Twitter to come up with more.
Jess:Yeah, I either use like I either like it or I use like the the laughing emoji one.
Ann Manley:Yeah.
Jess:Although I was very excited when they came out with the care emoji.
Ann Manley:Yes.
Jess:It made me happy.
Ann Manley:Yeah, we're just words are hard today.
Jess:Right?
Sheryl:I think we need more, I think we're realizing that they need to have more emotions.
Ann Manley:They do and with, with the amount of people that are on all the platforms of social media, and it's insane the amount of people that are on social media, I just read just this thing. I'm doing research. This is so funny, Sheryl, that it said 95% of people over the age of 12 know what Facebook is. And then it said, who the world is the 5% over the age of 12 who doesn't know what Facebook is? You want to meet them. Like so with the amount like 90
Jess:like tribes in Africa and stuff like that?
Ann Manley:Yeah, I'm just like, I mean, Addison has Addison, I mean, she's 10 and she's on TikTok and TikTok only has the heart as well. So Facebook is definitely above where all the other platforms are giving you options to like or not and like heart love, whatever. That girl will scroll and hit that heart button before like she that she's just acknowledging that person like she's like Mom doing my engagement, but at the age of 10 she is already knows like, what that is and she's very specific about like what I can and cannot put on social media of her. So I am really interested to know what 5% of people over the age of 12 don't know what fake Facebook is. Because I mean, her whole life has been on Facebook from birth till now. So I'm curious as to like, what I don't post it. It's really cool. She goes, you can post that. I'm like thank you.
Jess:It's not even a brand yet. I'm glad she gives you permission.
Ann Manley:I know. Like I'm going to do it anyway.
Jess:with only $5 to
Ann Manley:that'll be vbucks for Fortnight, it'll be Fortnight dollars to get to get her to pay things. Yeah.
Jess:But I know right. All right. Final question. If you could create, if you could create a reaction, what would you create? I already know what I would.
Ann Manley:Okay, Jess, what is yours? Because I feel like ours are going to be similar.
Jess:An eye roll.
Ann Manley:Oh, I love that.
Sheryl:I would use that.
Jess:I would use that every day. 50 times a day.
Sheryl:There should be. I would like something that conveys like, eh, like, you know, so so.
Ann Manley:You want the meh emoji, meh
Sheryl:Right, asi asi. Yeah. You know, something like that.
Ann Manley:Yeah. 2020 made me want to use dumpster fire, like all the time. So I feel like I would want some type of bad fire emoji. Not like this is lit and it's awesome. But oh my god, that's a dumpster fire. That's the one I want. But oh my god, I will use the eye roll every day. Every time I'm scrolling through some type of group I belong to. And I would just hit that eyeroll button. Anytime someone posts on the official Peloton page, why isn't there a pause button? I'm just gonna eye roll at that person because and just keep moving on 'cause that question gets asked every damn day and I just want
Jess:You're supposed to pee before your workout. You're supposed to like what I grab your water before your workout and there are no breaks.
Ann Manley:My eye roll is just for the repetitive questions that happen online every day 'cause people don't search feeds. And it drives me crazy. Yeah, and then they started this is a whole other podcast. We only have a few more minutes. So we'll have Dara like Dara we want to do a podcast on this.
Sheryl:I was just gonna say in my town's Facebook group. They're way too often somebody will say something like, does anyone know what time the store opens today? That I have seen that that needs an eye roll so many times, you know.
Ann Manley:And I think I think we need to well, first we need the keyboard function of getting a lot. And now we need to do we need the eye roll. We need the eye roll. Yes, I agree. I agree.
Sheryl:We need a podcast called or an episode called On Social Media What Not to Do.
Ann Manley:Oh yes, etiquette, Facebook group etiquette. Okay, we'll get on that. I am. I am ready for that one because I'm about to write up some stuff for Facebook edit anyway.
Jess:Well, ladies, thank you so much for joining me. Hopefully we can do this again soon.
Sheryl:Thanks Jess.
Ann Manley:Thanks for having us. I prefer I prefer being on the other side but I'll join in whenever.
Jess:I know you like to hit that mute button.
Ann Manley:I love my favorite thing. I hit that mute button and eat my lunch.
Jess:Like have fun, mute.
Ann Manley:Thanks for having us and safe travels.
Sheryl:Stay safe.
Ann Manley:Bye, ladies
Jess:Thank you all for tuning in this week. We hope this theory is relative to your marketing needs. Make sure you subscribe to get notified of our latest episodes.