Hello, and welcome to the Theory of Marketing Relativity Podcast. I'm Jess Burton, a marketing specialist here at Epic Marketing Consultants Corporation. Let's talk all things marketing and merchandising with our epic team. Today, my guest on our podcast is Dara. She's Epic's master blog writer, and probably one of my favorite wordsmiths. So welcome back to our podcast Dara.
Dara:Oh, thank you. It's always nice to be here and get the compliments.
Jess:It's always fun to have. I think I say this every single time. It's always fun to interview like, other people at Epic because I feel like we talk. I'm gonna put that in air quotes, um, about like, projects and stuff, but like, I never actually get to, like, verbally talk to you guys.
Dara:Yeah and I love hearing your conversations too. I think your last podcast or a recent one that you had with Kristin Koby, our designer. It was amazing to hear her almost her life story about how she became a designer. And her love of vinyl album cover art. It's like this peek behind the curtain of how it all comes together. So great.
Jess:Yes, I it's always fascinating because like, I know everybody like when you work with people, you know, everybody from like a work perspective. Like, you know, Dara's great at writing blogs, she's great at writing emails. But like, outside of that, like, same thing like Kristin like, I had no idea that she was. So into vinyls, and like music and that kind of stuff. Because I always think that's been fun to find out that stuff about people.
Dara:Yes.
Jess:So we, I don't know how we came across this topic, I don't know where we discovered it. But I know we talked about it a lot at Epic. But like pitching yourself, I know, I talked about it a lot with some of the other people that have gone to, especially now like virtual networking events, like pitching yourself to people. Um, because I have learned that not all virtual networking events are created equal. And there have been a few that I've been to where it's like, one on one, versus like a group of like three or four people that you have to talk to. Which is like terrifying. Um, cuz you're like, Oh, I have to talk to you for like, five minutes. How do I do that? And you don't even know me? So I wanted to pick your brain about what it's like, what are your, from a writer's perspective, if you're pitching someone via email, or even if you're sending someone like a LinkedIn message, um, to connect, like, what are your tips and tricks for getting it? Right? Yes.
Dara:So I think when we think about pitching ourselves, and it might sort of depend on the industry that you're in, you might specifically be thinking about it. If you're a freelance writer, you know, pitching a certain publication, a specific piece of work, or if you work in PR, you know, pitching a client to get coverage. Or if you're looking for a job, you know, pitching yourself and your resume. But no matter the category, I think we can sort of broadly talk about pitching today under the umbrella of just reaching out to someone, more or less on a one on one basis, and trying to make that connection and build a relationship. So and to go back to how the idea came about. I think it's one of those things that just kind of in the ether of like, if you get a good pitch email from someone, it makes you feel good. Because it's just like, right off the bat, you're like, you're excited that this person is excited to talk to you. You're excited about the topic that they want to talk about. And then if you get a bad pitch email, you're just annoyed like, it's wasted your time. And you you don't even know what they're trying to sell you because there isn't enough information.
Jess:Yes, I agree with that wholeheartedly. I think we've all gotten those emails in our inbox, or even like, I've seen some for some of our clients come through, like Facebook Messenger, and you read it and you're like, Ooh, that's like super salesy. Like I don't like it. I mean, everybody's different. Don't get me wrong. Um, but yeah, I think that a good pitch email could potentially take you places you never even thought, um, I know, at least when you send our newsletters, I'm always like, I, for some reason, in my head, I'm always confused when I get them. Like, I'm not expecting it, even though I know you're sending it. Um, but like the title, the title of the email, and like, I like that. That's funny. I want to click on that and open it then I'm like, Oh, it's from us.
Dara:You can still open it.
Jess:Exactly. And I do. Um, but yeah, I think like even just starting with, like your greeting. And like your, the title of your email is so important.
Dara:Yeah. So I think one of the things so we've talked about making a connection And now you're talking about inboxes being such a noisy place, I think one of the most important things to do right off the bat, is establish why this person is getting your email. And like, if it's about incorporating something in your newsletter, maybe closer to the bottom or the middle, just saying, like, hey, reminder, like we're reaching out to you, because you're on our list, like we want to get in touch with you. You know, that's on a broad scale. But if you're talking about getting in touch with someone, like a cold email, you want to get you want to build your network, using this person is super cool. Let them know why. And so one of the things that I love to do is, I like to say like, you know, if there is an existing connection, bring it up. So say like, you know, I know, Nancy, you know, Nancy, so and so suggested that I get in touch, they thought we would have a fun time chatting with each other. Of course, you know, build it out and get the tone, right for the type of engagement that you want. But just building that kind of common ground. And it could be anything it could be, you know, I saw you speak at this virtual conference, I was in the audience, I was really moved by what you said it could be, I think that we're both alumna of the same college, anything that just builds that common ground. And if you don't have it, find a way to make some, and this could be getting a little creative while you do your homework. If you're following someone on Twitter, if they're a writer, if they've posted something on LinkedIn, you know, use that, hey, I just saw this column that you wrote, for XYZ. I really liked the way you phrase this. I want to talk more about it.
Jess:I'm like, over here like taking notes. I'm like, I need to listen to this podcast 17 times because I think that like you just nailed like the perfect. I feel like the perfect formula for like getting over that like stage fright of like, pitching yourself to someone. I know I like have a ton of people that I follow on social media, I get their newsletters wherever but like would never think about reaching out to them even for like a mentorship. But like that just making it relatable and making it like comfortable and easy. Um, makes it sound so much less intimidating.
Dara:Yeah, I think stage fright is a great way to think about it. Because, I mean, when I'm sending a pitch email or a cold email to someone, I am reading it like 50 times and hovering over send. And then it's like, okay, I sent it, I press Send. I sent it, it's over. Now, of course, that is until they email you back, which they hopefully do.
Jess:Yes. Oh my gosh, I know that feeling when you send it for the next like, hour to like, day, you're like freaking out checking your email. And then after like two or three days, your front end kind of like not forget about it, but it like sneaks its way into the back of your mind. Until you get an answer. Hopefully,
Dara:yes. And then I'm glad that you mentioned, you know, LinkedIn, Twitter, kind of starting to see these people that you admire, and getting them in your network by following them on Twitter or another social media platform. Those are other ways to kind of like set the scene for if it is an email that you eventually send to them to get a deeper connection, or just kind of start moving in the same networks. You know, nothing says that it has to be a pitch email that gets you two together, it could be that you both start following each other on Twitter and you start liking their tweets. And then they start noticing you and hey, you've got some good tweets too. And now you're moving together in the same network.
Jess:Hallelujah. Yes, I think everybody who's interested, I feel like this is like the perfect podcast. I'm like listening to us talk. And I'm like, this is the perfect podcast for like all of those like college like juniors and seniors. I'm like, I've just read an article about like how this pandemic has caused a lot of people to want to change their career path. And that is like super true like you follow not necessarily influencers but like brand and industry elite thought leaders on LinkedIn and Twitter and like, Who's to say that your next job couldn't come from messaging someone on LinkedIn and say, Hey, I read your article. I really enjoyed it. And I would love to chat with you more about, you know, insert content of article here. I think that I know like it just, there's so many possibilities. It's, it's crazy.
Dara:Yeah, and I think one of the things that always bugs me with pitch emails is when people don't do their homework, and, either just instead of cold emailing someone, you know, putting in the time to really get to know them, you know, by googling their work, reading what they've written, looking at their resume, figuring out, you know, what sort of certificates or courses they've taken, like, what's their career path been? Because time is precious. And I think that, on the one hand, people do love to talk, they love to talk about some people love to talk about themselves, other people don't. But you know, if they do, just make sure that you're having a decent conversation, and making it worth their time as well. I remember hearing one trick. And this was pre pan, but it was saying, like, hey, I'd love to bring you a cup of coffee sometime. So kind of removing that barrier of like, oh, are we going to meet up? Are we who's going to get the coffee? Like, it's like, you are offering to give them something in exchange for their time. So it's not just like, and I think that this, this can be a big drain on people where it's just like, Hey, I'm young and curious, like, tell me your life? I think first, like, take a step back and like, do the research.
Jess:Yes. I think so. I one of my, I guess I can call her an influencer. One of my favorite influencers is Andrea Helfrich. She's one of the broadcast people for the Philadelphia Flyers. Um, she on her, like, Instagram page will do at like, asked me anything. So like, there are questions everywhere from like, Where did you buy the basket that sits on yourtable? To how did you get into broadcasting? What was your, what has gotten you to the career and today? Um, and it's super cool, because she answers which I will kudos to her, she answers every single message, and post the answers to like the really good questions. Um, and I think that using your social media, especially like, we're all home, we're all sitting on the couch after work, to help create, not like, I don't wanna say not professional, but it's definitely a more relaxed environment. Versus I just think of all of the networking events you go to, where it's like a luncheon, or a brunch. And it's like, an it's like, 45 minutes of networking. And then there's a speaker, and then there's another 45 minutes of networking. And it's like, I always feel super awkward, because I'm like, we are all here just to like, kiss each others butts to see what we can do. Versus like making like true actual connections with people.
Dara:I like that you bring up the Ask me anything, because I think that in our marketing work, we talk a lot about meeting people where they are. And that's a lesson that you can apply to your own communications as well. And I mean, even if you if you have that friend, that is always hard to meet up with, like, just go to them, like meet them where they are. I think like for if a relationship matters to you, you know, you should be willing to do the work to make it come together.
Jess:Absolutely, I think that's, I think that's like super, super relevant, especially like with this pandemic, we are in a time where sometimes to keep friendships and keep business relationships and meet people where they are. I know, with some of our clients, I still I have to call them on the phone like they didn't they're not tech savvy. So Zoom calls and Google Hangouts and all that kind of stuff doesn't exactly always work. But if I pick up the phone and call them, they're always there to answer my questions. Um, you know, there we have a couple clients where I've had to have like, socially distant, like, physical meetings with them. Um, just because they do better with the one on one person thing. But yeah, it also does, its that in itself also does spill into how you should handle everything in life meet people where they're at, um, I do it with my friends All the time. Like, we ended up making a pandemic book club. And we live like in two different time zones. Um, because half of them live in like Tennessee. And picking a time as the first part before we would do it nine o'clock eastern. And once everyone kind of got into the swing of things, you're like, this is too late. We all want to go to bed. So we bumped it up to eight, and it's seven o'clock for them, which is a little harder, but it is funny to like see my friend like eating dinner while we're talking about a book. Um, but a lot of it is Zoom. Like we realized that like the, we the only way we're going to keep in touch because we can't really travel. We're all super busy. But we can carve out an hour once a week or every other week to talk about a book and talk to each other and just check in and be like, Hey, how you doing like, so it is it is very much meet people where they're at
Dara:that's Really nice. And this makes me think of something. I don't think I'm going to get the details. Exactly right. But Epic's Futurist Peter Shankman. I remember him talking about at one point. Like, if you want to meet up with me, I'll meet up with you. But it's going to be at 5am on my jog through New York City.
Jess:God I feel like there was a movie, like an older movie. And when I say older, I mean, like, it was probably in like the 90s. But there was like, Oh, my God, that's gonna bother you so much, I can't think of what it is. Um, but the woman is like, on the treadmill. And she's like, we can meet, but it's got to be during my, you know, lunch break when I'm running on the treadmill. And she's on a call with whomever this person is, um, well, and she's out of breath. And she's running on the treadmill. And I'm like, you know, I'm like it. That's what it takes. That's what it takes,
Dara:Yeah, this is kind of the plot of like, any romantic comedy?
Jess:Yes, I'm suresure it's been done several times. And surprised. I haven't seen it in a Hallmark movie.
Dara:Um, so earlier, you mentioned advice from professors advice for like new job seekers. And there is something that I always will remember from one of my professors in college, who's giving us tips on how to reach out and, and make connections, specifically for applying for jobs.
Jess:Mm hmm.
Dara:And it's like bragging is uncomfortable.
Jess:Yes.
Dara:And maybe for some people, it's not. It might not work so well for you, though, even though you like bragging. But people don't like to brag. If you do, it's just it kind of hits the wrong note. So you should find a way around it. And one way that you can do this is just have others do it for you. So the tip that this professor gave me was to say, my editors Tell me, and then you just fill in the blank. So it's, you know, my editors tell me that I'm great at hitting deadlines, then my work comes in clean on time, that I have a real zest for details, you know, stuff like that, where it's like, you are bragging, but you're inserting this third party into the conversation. And they're doing it for you. And and if that doesn't exactly work, you know, did your company recently win an award like, I'm getting in touch with you. And I'm so thrilled to share that recently, I was a finalist in the Readers Choice Awards. Or another thing is to just have your work, do it for you, like, you're introducing yourself to someone and you're saying like, hey, I'd love for you to check out my work. Here's this story I wrote that I'm super proud of, you know, here's this website I just designed like, I'm really excited to share it with you, maybe you have feedback for me, but then just, they see it and they can decide for themselves, what they think of your accomplishments. You know, if there's any room to improve, or if they're just, you know, absolutely blown away, and then you don't have to go on and on about how great you are, somebody else is doing it for you.
Jess:That is some phenomenal advice. Um, I think that like, especially like, just really evenly as an adult, I have to weird refer to myself as an adult, because sometimes I don't feel like an adult. Um, even as an adult, I think that that's a good way to make it seem less, like braggy because I know a lot of people don't want to be braggy um, I know some of the best advice I received in college was my one of my older professors said always keep thank you notes. Um, she was like, whether it's just plain colored stationery or plain color, whatever. She was, like, always keep thank you notes of she's like, and especially to professors, or work people who you have their address, like if you've met them somewhere and their mailing addresses on their business card. She's like, send them a handwritten Thank you. I'm not many people do it anymore. And it'll set you apart from everybody else. She had said that one of the things that she had noticed was that she had gotten a thank you card from a student. I think it was probably like five or six years before I had her as an advisor. And she said, I still remember that student to this day. She's like, I remember her name. I remember who she was, I know what she did after she left college. She's like, I keep tabs on her because I knew that something about her was just slightly different than everybody else. Um, so she said that's the advice that I give my graduating seniors is that always keep thank you notes and always send them she's like, even if it's just a it was great to meet you. I hope we can connect someday and leave you know, tell them to find you on LinkedIn, find you on whatever, give them your business card if you haven't already, and I thought that was a super interesting thing for her to say, as especially now, as we are all leaning into the virtual and the digital, and the LinkedIn and the emails.
Dara:I love that just because communications and I wrote this down, I made a few notes before we started the podcast. And this was my bonus bonus piece of advice. And it's like, I think networking can feel really transactional. You know, because you're looking for something, they might be looking for something. But at the end of the day, like, we all just want to feel good. And that just because connection, you know, if it's just a thank you note saying really quickly, thanks for your time. That's very sweet to share with a mentor professor. I also love like, and this, like, you know, don't expect the world from this, because you're doing it just because, um, but if I see something that makes me think of someone, and I haven't been in touch with them for a while, like, I'll just send them a link and I'll say, Hey, I read this article, it made me think of you, I hope you're well, I hope you enjoy it. And, and that just keeps you in each other's orbits. So yeah, you are kind of getting something from it, because you're doing the work of sustaining the relationship. But at the same time, it's just a nice little Hello.
Jess:Exactly, I, if you think of it more, as like a sphere of sphere sphere, I said that weird. If you think of it more as like the sphere of, like, I always say, like, in my head, there are different kinds of friendships that you have. And like, there are some people that like your friendship is purely based on like, business, like, there are people that I've met through work that like, they pick my brain about social media, I pick their brain about I don't know, I can't even something I don't know about, which is a lot. Um, but like, we keep in touch that way. Now, there are friends that know all my dirty little secrets, but that they don't really know very much about my business life and about my job. Um, so I think of it, it's just kind of like maintaining these different kinds of relationships and these different kinds of friendships, like you said, to keep people in your orbit.
Dara:Yeah, and I think it's also important to just whatever you do act with positivity, um, because you might not hear back from someone right away. I think you can always circle back with them, you know, in a week, say, Hey, I didn't hear from you. You know, can I bring this back? You know, just checking in if you don't have time. But if you don't hear from them, you know, don't hold on to that negativity. I know of people who have sent out pinch pitch emails. And then six months later, they were replied to and said, Hey, we have an opportunity now. So it can be really frustrating for things to go on answered or to get a no. But we live in a strange, digital, always changing world. And you don't actually know if the door is closed. So don't be a jerk and close it on yourself.
Jess:Yes, I think, um, I know, when I came here from Epic, the first thing Nancy told me was, we want you to transition here correctly, don't burn any bridges. Um, you know, we'll work with you on transitioning you out of your current job to this one, because we want you to maintain that level of connection. And that's something that has always stuck with me that like, you know, with all of the different analogies one door opens another one close, but not one door closes another one opens, like going backwards. Um, you know, don't burn any bridges, because you never know somewhere down the line. Um, you might be able to, you know, connect with them in a different way. I think that's super important, especially when it comes to networking and building your personal brand, and building, you know, a network of people who are willing to, I mean, maybe not even just hire you, but say, you know, what, you're telling me all about, you know, blog writing, and I just met someone who is looking for a blog writer, can I give them your information? I think that is like another key part of it is that maybe they can't help you with immediately what they're doing right now. But who's to say down the line, someone might mention something that's relevant to you?
Dara:Absolutely. So I think if I had to wrap up everything that I believe a perfect pitch is made of, I would say it's always be polite, be politely persistent, and be informed.
Jess:Love it short, sweet to the point. Well, Dara, thank you so much for joining us today. I feel like I learned a ton and I hope everybody listening, learn, like learns everything and takes notes and listen to this like 17 times. Because I feel like we just made networking and meeting people in the digital world 10 times easier for anyone who's looking to do it.
Dara:Good this afternoon everybody just send it just because email
Jess:Exactly. Oh my gosh, what if like, net for like 2020 or 2020 1am I gonna know what year it is. Everybody's goal is to send a just because email like every Tuesday.
Dara:That would be very sweet.
Jess:Could you imagine how many like missed? That makes me think of like Craigslist where they have like misconnection Oh, like, imagine how many like missed business connections you could potentially like, rekindle just by sending a just because email.
Dara:Yes. 2021 rekindle the fire.
Jess:Love it. Well, thank you for joining me. I really appreciate it. And hopefully we can have you back again soon.
Dara:Thanks, Jess.
Jess:No problem. Thank you all for tuning in this week. We hope this theory is relative to your marketing needs. Make sure you subscribe to get notified of our latest episodes.