The theory of marketing relativity podcast.

Jess
Hello, and welcome to the Theory of Marketing Relativity podcast. I'm Jess Burton, a marketing specialist at Epic Marketing Consultants and I'm here to talk all things marketing and merchandising with you and our team. So today I have our creative director Amy back with us, except she's not here to talk about creativity anymore. Amy, thanks for joining me.

Amy
Thanks for having me, Jess.

Jess
No problem. So do you want to tell everybody why you're here?

Amy
Yes, I am here because now it's time to put Jess in the hot seat. And she is going to be answering all of your burning questions about social media and marketing. So Jess, how's it feel to be the one in the hot seat this time?

Jess
Um, I don't like it. This like I so I might like I've been competitive like my entire life. Like between sports and like, if you can make playing instrument competitive, like, yes, that was something that I did. Was it when you want to be first chair flute that's like a serious

Amy
you know, and I have never been able to carry a tune so I I can't even carry a tune in a bucket. So that's cool to me. That's really cool. Yeah.

Jess
Always wanted to be first chair never happened. I tried really hard though. But I always I think even from like a young age, like even when I was playing like intramural sports or whatever it was, I always had like a ritual of like, let me drink some water. Let me go to the bathroom. Let me like do this little nervous dance. And like, before we started doing this, I was like, let me go to the bathroom. Make sure I have my water like me. I'm like, Oh my god, nothing changes.

Amy
No, nothing changes. That's true. Okay, so, deep breath. Are you ready for your interrogation?

Jess
Let's go.

Amy
Okay, let's do it. First question. Why did you get interested in marketing and social media?

Jess
Um, oh, that's a good one. I think it was to quote Bob Ross, like a like a literal happy accident. Um, so I have always just kind of like prided myself on being really good at being creative and if you talk to like my boyfriend and my friends sometimes I'm not that humble about it like I'm like, Oh no, I don't have Pinterest fails, I never fail at Pinterest.

Amy
You're like the Kayne West of Social Media

Jess
That was like the, the ongoing joke was that like, I like I was just super like I was the person people asked for ideas. Um, and I always had like, a creative background. So I danced and I took photos and all that kind of stuff. Um, I think the like, very, very short version of the story was like growing up, I'd always been super into photography. And I one year on a whim. I don't even know how it happened. I ended up entering a bunch of my photography in like the Delaware State Fair. And I was like, I'm not going to win anything. Like there's plenty of people in Delaware. There's no way I'm gonna win. So like I was 22 and the cutoff for like, the youth or teen category is 22. So I was like, well, this wasn't that bad, like, whatever. And then the one of I think I entered like five or six photos. And one of them placed first in the category that i entered it in. Which was like, Oh, snap, like, yeah, like, I am not that bad at this.

Amy
Right.

Jess
So then the next year came around, and I entered, probably like eight to 10 photos thinking like now bottom of the totem pole, because I'm in like the 23. I'm in the adult category, which is like 23 and up so like,

Amy
That's scary.

Jess
Yeah. And like, luckily, the only stipulation is that like if you're if you get paid for photography, like you can't enter it like it's supposed to be for amateurs. But still, there are plenty. Yeah, there are plenty of like people I know who are complete amateurs who like spend way more time learning how to use their cameras who spend way more time learning how to use Photoshop, who spend way just way more time doing anything, and I'm over here like okay, how fast can I watch this two minute YouTube video on cropping. So I entered and I think that year like three of my photos came in like second place in the categories that I entered them in and I was like. Oh my god, okay, this is cool. So I started entering stuff there. I got into, I got more into social media because I realized that like Instagram was the picture hub at the time. We didn't have Oh my god, what are all the teenagers using?

If we didn't have VSCO or TikTok?

Amy
I don't even know VSCO.

Jess
Oh god, you're not miss it's Instagram without captions. It's just pictures.

Amy
Honestly, I think people are getting obnoxious with their captions on Instagram and all the hashtags. I'll probably ask you about that later. But okay, I feel Yeah,

Jess
So yeah, I got really an Instagram. kind of started getting into Facebook because I had one I really only post it like you ever go to the part on your Facebook where it's like memories and you look back like 10 years ago and you're like, Oh my God, why did I post that on Facebook?

Amy
Do you remember when they used to have the Facebook and it was like you had to say it in like a weird like third person and it was like Amy feels upset because she forgot to eat breakfast today.

Jess
Yes, it was like, there's like Jessicais and I'm like, What if I'm at like, what if Jessica's at like I don't?

Amy
Yeah, exactly, because I'm through a lot of strange progress through.

Jess
Yeah, thank God, we're moving away from the weird third person thing. Um, but I got kind of into that. And the job I was at at the time, my boss kind of realized that like, social media was becoming more important. And she needed to put someone in charge of it because like, it's not something that you can just like, Oh, I'm gonna throw some stuff up today and then forget about it for a week,

Amy
Which is what everyone thinks social media is.

Jess
Exactly so, with like, zero experience, I started like, basically any kind of free training that was available, I watched the video, I read the blog, I read the article, I took notes. I had a I'm like, I'm one of those old school people and I thought it was here and I don't think it is. I'm one of those old school people that still uses like a paper planner. I don't really use it for like work stuff. But like I do enjoy like, a good like 15 minutes with my like, I'll show you my like colored pencil, like colored pens, and just like, calmly writing down what's going to happen for the week. Um

Amy
I have a set of 28 different color felt tip pens. I feel you.

Jess
I think I bought like 50 pack off Amazon. I'm like, I did not know there. There were this many shades of orange. Um, but

Amy
Was one of them Trump orange?

Jess
Oh god, who knows. Well, so they're from Amazon. So they're in another language characters that I don't understand. So I I have no clue. But so I made like, essentially a content calendar in a paper, like I printed out for every month like a calendar, I made a content planner. We had Facebook, we had Facebook, we have Instagram. Um, and I started doing that. From there, I moved from that job where I got hired at a small business to specifically do their social media. So the girl that hired me was like, I really want you to take our Instagram and our Facebook to like a whole other level. It was right when Instagram and Facebook shopping have just come out. So I got really into it. And like that, I guess it's kind of where I decided like, I think I could do this like, for real like as a real job.

Amy
Right.

Jess
So um, yeah, I it's kind of like a long, weird story. If you ever have time to listen to the whole thing because I originally like to go from in high school from high school to college. I was a physical therapy like I want to do physically therapy.

Amy
So that's like a complete,

Jess
It's a complete like,

Amy
Complete like, there is like not nothing connecting though.

Jess
It wasn't like I was like, I want to be in business and then decided that like marketing, no, it's just a whole different like job field. But I think that's kind of what got me interested. And now I'm just I, for work, I'm super interested in like how people engage and why people engage. I also run the social media for I am the band front advisor for my high school marching band, and I run all of our social media. So I'm also super interested just learning all the platforms, which is nice because I make my students tell me, I'm like, so how do I use TikTok? What is you know? And they're all like, shouldn't you know this? And I'm like, No, I'm asking you to teach me and then they're like, I don't know if this is cool. I don't know if I should be weirded out by this. I'm like, well, just teach me what I need to know.

Amy
Because there's also that like, big difference between using social media for for yourself and to promote your own self and then using it for a business and to try to promote and get those CTAs and get that ROI. So that's where there's a big difference between and you always hear these people like, Oh, I would love to get paid to sit on social media all day. But how many times have you told me if I have to look at social media one more time?

Jess
So it's like, it's funny because like, people are like, Oh, you're just on social media all day? And I'm like, actually no, like, away are not. Right. Our company works is that like, we have a we use a secondary scheduling program because all of us manage like the ones that those of us that are scheduling social media, I can't speak English today. You know, um, those of us that are scheduling social media, we have multiple clients and like it is such a PIA to skip back and forth between Facebook pages. And like Instagrams and Twitters that like having it all in one program is phenomenal. Um, but there are times like where I have to go and look on Twitter proper or look on Instagram proper. And even then I'm just like, oh my god, like this is just a lot of noise. I don't want to look at it.

Amy
Right. But basically the point is, even though you work in social media, and that is your role in your title, like it's not the fun and games of being on social media.

Jess
No.

Amy
So that brings me to my next question. So what is your favorite social media platform? If you had to pick one, I know it's tough, but if you had to pick one.

Jess
I think my personal favorite would have to be Instagram. I'm like, I'm a super visual person. So I love just being able to like see a picture and decide if I want to click on something or read more. Um, there's also the other thing I like, which a lot of you will probably think this is super weird, is so when you're an I do all of our ads, like I do all the ads for all of our clients. So the thing that I like about Instagram is that when I'm scrolling through my feed, The ads blend right in with my feed. And that like on if you're on like Twitter or like Twitter a little bit, it does blend in. But like Facebook, you're like, wait a minute, this is not this isn't right. This doesn't look like yeah, it doesn't blend in as well. So I feel like I just prefer Instagram, because it's cohesive. Um, and it's visual and I feel like you can kind of use it however you want. I just like pretty pictures.

Amy
That and the fact that like Instagram it does. So everything is all in the same format. When you're scrolling through your feed on Instagram, it's all the same pictures. It's all the same sizes. So like knowing which one is an ad and which one is organic content. Really kind of blurs that line on Instagram, unlike ads for Twitter or Facebook, you can usually tell that they are paid placements. So yes, in with that respect. I do agree that I think Instagram I have spent so much money on Instagram.

Jess
Yeah, yeah.

Amy
No, it's it's one of the things that It's just so easy to spend that money and not even know what account it's coming out of and not even have to think about it. You can just Nope. I want this audiobook or Oh, that top is cute. So in a way, it makes it super, super easier for us marketers to kind of get that in front of people, but at the same time, it's also balancing that line between, you know, how do we need this and that? How do we not?

Jess
Like as a consumer, you're like, Oh my god, I am going to spend all my money and not even realize it because I'm just face identifying my face typing in my like CVC code

Amy
And as a marketer, you're like, score

Jess
Yes, make purchases.

Amy
Yeah. Okay, so going from that, like so we know your favorite platform is Instagram. But so what are things that people and businesses should know about each of the different platforms? Like, what makes Facebook better than Instagram for something or why should you go for YouTube or Twitter? Like what are the different things These different platforms bring to the client.

Jess
The best thing to tell people can do overall is figuring out who you're targeting and what their age demographic is and then why you're targeting them because a lot of people so like I always say that like, I'm 29 those of us that are like in our late 20s to like your mid 30s are like in we're on all of them right? Like all of my friends are on all of the platforms. I'm not saying they're on them as much as I am, but like almost all my friends have LinkedIn accounts, all those all my friends have Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, like

Amy
Well it's becasue millenials kind of came up like we are the social media generation. We are the ones that adopted it. We're the ones who made it what it is. Sorry, Boomers. Yeah, we did it.

Jess
Yeah. So know your audience and know where they are. That's like my number one big old tip. For Facebook. It's about hmmmm. What is like the good number one thing you should know about Facebook? Facebook is gonna be where you want to make sure your information is up to date. So like I always see Facebook is like the yellow pages of today. It's, it's like where people go to like look up your hours look up your phone number. I like, like they go to look up any specials you may have or any promotions or the latest news. You know, a big thing now if you live in a tight knit community, or even just a solid community is like community groups on Facebook. So a lot of people will if you have a Facebook page, they'll tag you in that community group. So like I'm a part like our moms group has like 10,000 people in it. And all the time people are like, does someone know someone that can cut down these trees? Who can come haul my trash? Who does this? And people will tag pages and like you can get actual leads, just by having a Facebook page that someone can refer to and then like, click on and take you to the page to see your hours, your phone number and email address. So just having an updated Facebook page and having it be active. Now, if you're one of our clients, your Facebook page is like, wonderful and beautiful because we're updating it, we're posting all the time. But if you're doing it yourself, make sure that you're scheduling your posts because Facebook proper has that ability, and that you're scheduling your posts, you know, out across the week. So don't just post like, we trimmed all of these trees this weekend. Don't think that you need to hit like, you need to post all 10 properties 9, 10, 11, 12, 1, 2, like on Monday. You know, spread it out over two weeks, and then that gives you a nice two week buffer to come up with more content and move into the next week.

Amy
You were a small business and you couldn't afford to have your own website. Do you think that maybe using social media as a means to get your name out there would be a good kind of cushion until you can get your own website or no?

Jess
Absolutely. I think that having a Facebook will definitely be beneficial to you because it contains almost all of the same information that your website would be it's just not as pretty as a custom website would be like you design you do all the layouts for our website and was like oh my god it's so esstatically pleasing because all the colors are pretty and like Facebook is..

Amy
Hey don't knock what I do.

Jess
No, it's not I'm just saying that like you get what you pay for like you're not you're not paying for Facebook which means everybody's page is gonna look the same.

Amy
Right. Exactly

Jess
Because all that customize these like four things so it's harder to make yourself stand out. Whereas like if you go to a website you can have all these cool header images and sliders and menus and images and stuff like that. So I think if you're a small business who doesn't have the budget for a.

Amy
Because websites are a big investment,

Jess
For a well designed, yet oh god yeah, they are, well designed website, um, Facebook and keeping your Facebook like in good shape. You don't get Abs overnight you're not going to have a great Facebook presence overnight.

Amy
oh that's that is so good. That is such a good that's tangible like you get social success overnight just like you're not going to get abs for not eating pizza one day like it has to be something you continually build.

Jess
Exactly. So for Facebook, it's just keeping it updated and be and like keeping your page fresh. For yeah, that would be my Facebook takeaways which I think is a big one that people don't really know about. But they don't think about. Um, for Twitter, Twitter might be one of my least favorites. I always think of Twitter as like, so I like driving down to the beach in Delaware you have to drive down Route 1. And it's after like it just feels like it goes on forever. And after the Air Force Base on 1 it's just like kind of like farmland. So Twitter reminds me of Like the tillers that like arrogating the ground it just keeps turning over. You can't keep up with like Facebook or Twitter is very

Amy
Yes.

Jess
fresh and new. It reminds me of like, if you're it also reminds me ofthe ESPN redzone

during football season, I get so stressed out watching that, because the way like and I watched I've watched it several times at like other people's houses on like massive screen TVs, but the TV breaks out into like, you know, like four quadrants. But it changes between all of the NFL games based on who's closest to the end zone. So like you might be watching like the Eagles Broncos game over here and they're five yards from a touchdown. But then, you know, that's done and it switches to another game because they're 10 yards from a touchdown. So like it's switching back and forth like that. It just that's what Twitter reminds me of is that it's like, always on top of

Amy
Only what's happening in the moment.

Jess
Yes.

Amy
It's not something really for evergreen content. Or you can go back and refer to it

Jess
Rght so like with Twitter, like the best thing is to quote our copywriter because this is I want to get this put on a shirt. Yes. Oh my god, I want to get it on a shirt. Like Yeah, I'm making an iron and I'm doing it. I'm short and snappy makes me happy. Twitter you get 280 characters and your link if you're putting a link in there it takes up characters. So like a big thing

Amy
When will Twitter like link within the tweet, it drives me bonkers.

Jess
So the one thing is another way around that is to use like a Bitly or like a link shortener.

Amy
Right.

Jess
So like what you're like long link in and it chops it up into little pieces.

Amy
Was that little pieces?

Jess
I saw like you know how women like their hair just sheds all the time. Oh, you I will find like hairs floating around me and then I'm like, Oh, hello, little buddy little pieces.

Amy
I thought that was like this is what you do. It's Twitter.

Jess
No. Oh, throw it in the trash. No, just kidding. Um, but like Twitter, Twitter's where I go when like things happen and I'm like, I need information. I go to Twitter.

Amy
Like, what the heck? What is happening? Betty White. Let me make sure she's okay. I know.

Jess
Every like, every like two months when like that whole like, RIP Betty White. I'm like no or

Amy
What like when Betty White is trending at all. It's like no, do not do this to me. 2020 I have been through enough.

Jess
Also like the prime example this and I remember, oh my god, this is such a weird thing because I remember exactly where I was. When I found out that Kobe Bryant died. Like I was sitting. I was sitting in a Buffalo Wild Wings and it came across the TV andI was like,

Amy
Oh, that's so on brand for Kobe Bryant.

Jess
Right though. I was like, No, you want to know the first app I opened on my phone? Twitter.

Amy
Exactly. Likewhen stuff like that happens. Twitter is where you go. That's where you get relevant the new information but it's also kind of hard to rely on just Twitter to build a brand unless you are putting out a content ton of content over and over and over. So

Jess
So like Twitter is good for like companies who are maybe appealing to like a younger demographic or being super edgy. Like I always use like the Wendy's account as like a phenomenal example of like being super edgy because they will just roast anybody.

Amy
Don't tell Nancy but I so want to work for Wendys.

Jess
I know well I like literally like low key like I either wanna work for Wendy's or I want to work for The Rock. Like I love him and his brand love it need to get in front of that.

Amy
How much fun is it though, that like all of these, like Millennials are kind of taking over the industry. And now they're not the same rules that there were when baby boomers were in charge not to like say that derogatorily or anything, but like Millennials are so much more open to being open.

Jess
Yes

Amy
That's really awesome to see. Like, I mean, you have a company literally called Fuck Jerry. And I mean, they must have joined forces with Fire Festival, which we've all seen documentaries that didn't work out well. But it's kind of fun to see that like millennials, and we're like taking over the job market. So we're kind of turning the whole proper way to behave on its head. And yeah, your authentic self, which is kind of what we tell people in marketing and you should always be your authentic self, you should always have that true purpose when you put out something on social media. So that takes me to my next question, what really brings up the anatomy of a great social post?

Jess
Ooh, that's a good one. I think like being authentic is definitely on point. Always have an image because like I said earlier, images will always catch people's attention. It doesn't matter if you're Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Google My Business, YouTube, Pinterest, LinkedIn, any I think I said LinkedIn or I don't know all of them. You should always have an image because if you think about it, I forget I went to a conference a couple years ago, and I legitimately cannot remember her name and it's making me mad. But I just remember her saying she was like, I she's like, as a woman in business, you need to learn how to take up space. She's like, because it's, it shows that you're here. She was like, and I physically mean space like that. You need to sit up taller. You need to wear brighter colors. You need to sit forward at the table or at the desk when you're talking. I talk with my hands anyway, as you can see,

Amy
No, I didn't notice at all

Jess
I do this a lot. You know, use your arms like there's a good way to be about it. And the same goes for social media is just take up real estate. If someone's looking at their phone, you only get I don't know how big that is. We're not gonna make jokes about size.

Unknown Speaker
Um,

Amy
It's not a real six inches though. Let me tell you

Jess
Like you only get so much space on Facebook on like a Facebook like mobile feed? Most people are looking at social media on their phone. So why would you take up an inch of space with just text? When you can take up three inches of space with text in a picture?

Amy
Are you going to look at the picture? Are you going to look at texts?

Jess
Yeah. So like, the big part is to have short copy. If you can keep it so that you don't have to click read more, more power to you. Um, and then have a picture and always have a call to action in your copy. Whether it's like our page, check us out, read this article, comment below, always have a call to action on your post. So short copy, call to action, picture. Those are the three things you need to have on every single platform or video if you're on YouTube

Amy
I was gonna say so what about video does video kind of is video and images are they kind of like the same for interaction wise or just video get more or does photo get more does it kind of depend?

Jess
Oh, video definitely gets more. I think YouTube has definitely exploded over the last couple years and I think part of that is good quality video making is just becoming more relevant. Like you can go and buy an entry level DSLR camera that takes phenomenal video for like 400 bucks. And then you buy a nice mic on Amazon for 60 bucks and you can make YouTube videos until your face turns purple. Um,

Amy
Don't tell me that, I got my new career path.

Jess
It's got to be good content that like do videos of like paint drying.

Amy
Oh, see that was where I was gonna head. I was just gonna have a whole video segment of paint drying with different colors so they compare.

Jess
I lately I'm a big sucker for those like home DIY projects where people set their camera up on like a tripod and they video record for like three hours. Them like doing all the diagonal lines on their wall and like painting them. And then like peeling the paint, like peeling the tape off, and it's the cool design, but they speed it up by like 10 times you're watching them do it.

Amy
It's so satisfying watching that when they peel the paint and it comes off perfect.

Jess
Perfect lines

Amy
Drills the hole in the paint buckets and then swings it.

Jess
Yes, the pendulum one.

Amy
Yes, he's amazing,

Jess
Yeah, videos, definitely you definitely have more of a chance of keeping your audience if it's a video, because if you can catch them in the first three seconds, you've got them for at least another 10 especially because they want to see what the video is about. Right. Um, that also being said, since I do all of our Facebook ads, there are ways to do ads that target people who watch your videos for three or more seconds.

Amy
Right, so when you do that, do you get the delineation between people who watched it for so long people who watched it all the way through people watch it for so many seconds, like does it give you that breakdown?

Jess
So it'll give Three seconds, 10 seconds. And then I think Facebook's word for word is a through play. So it's like someone who watched it from beginning to end. Um, yeah. So it's there. It's crazy how they're watching you.

Amy
Right? That's also super valuable for people who are creating content, right? Because they know like, if people only make it to the 22nd mark of our videos, we've got to do we've got to put all in the front here. Like we're not making it to the whole end. So that's really interesting to hear that you can see that delineation.

Jess
Oh, absolutely. And I think it gives it gives people who are the content creators, the knowledge to know if you wanted to, like test some things out like okay, this intro worked great, because everybody watches video to the 10 second mark, but then like, this video didn't work so great because we only got three second video plays. So videos

Amy
What changed, what was different?

Jess
Exactly. So videos are definitely a good way to test content because you can get the that feedback. On Facebook.

Amy
Now, what about when you do Facebook Lives? How like what is I don't know much about Facebook lives. LinkedIn just recently released lives. I know that we've been doing them a lot with our clients, our Futurist, Peter Shankman, he does them all the time with all these awesome people. But what about Facebook Live? Is Facebook Live different from video? Is it the same? What does that what is that?

Jess
So Facebook Live is basically like, if we were to take this conversation and broadcast it straight to Facebook. Which I don't know people might want to see that people should let us know if they want to see that if they just want to listen to you and I talk all day. Um, yeah, it could be dangerous. But so Facebook Live is basically you setting your phone up in front of you or your laptop or your iPad or whatever. And you're talking directly to the people of Facebook, and you can see their comments below your video.

Amy
So it's like a live interaction. It makes a little bit more real for your audience.

Jess
Yes. And the cool thing is, is Facebook also just added another feature relatively recently. Where you can invite people to join your live. So like if I go live and say, You and I are going to talk about something and you hop on, I can invite you to hop in the video split screens and people can see you and people can see me.

Amy
That's cool.

Jess
So yeah, Facebook Lives are a good way to get like yourself in front of your audience. I going back to the high school marching bands that I work with, we do I go live on during school and during event season. I go live all the time, because it's a great way for parents who aren't at the event, or, you know, graduates, like people who have been in the program to kind of see like, Oh, hey, this is what we're doing. We're in this parade. We're at this football game. This is our halftime show. The only thing you do have to be careful about is music. If you're for copyright infringement, Facebook will mute your video. But a lot of times like I've done it just because it like people get a notification like that, like, people can get a notification like, hey, Epic Marketing Consultants is live and then they can tap on it, it takes them right to our live video. So Facebook Lives are definitely becoming a bigger deal. It's great if you want to give people like a sneak peek into your company and what it's like working there or what it's like, doing what you do.

Amy
So it has more applications than just trying to get sales, it can try and recruit talent, it can just give an overview of what your company is doing. It has actually a lot of really cool applications that you could use it for.

Jess
Yes, absolutely.

Amy
I never really thought about using Facebook for other things. I you know, I don't do. I'm not a social media guy. You tell me what I'm supposed to do. Um, but Okay, so that brings me to my very last question and I promise I won't keep you on the hot seat any longer. But this is a toughy. So channel our Futurist, Peter Shankman. Yes.

Jess
Let me hop on my Peloton.

Amy
Yeah, get on your Peloton.

Jess
Let me bleach my hair dye it blue

Amy
Yes, bleach your hair dye blue do all that stuff. Um, what predictions do you have about social media over the next three, six or 12 months?

Jess
I think that social media will start to just pick up I think a lot of the of my parents generation and older because I hate saying older generation because I know some pretty cool people who are like super on top of it that are like, way smarter than I am. Um, but like my parents generation older I think they'll start to use it a bit more.

Amy
Well, they already have like adopted Facebook so completely, like I can't pass anything without like seven or 10 different aunts and uncles being like, oh, good picture. Oh, look at little Asher and I'm like it's Newt. It's okay. It's a different puppy. It's fine.

Jess
My favorite like Facebook meme quote thing of all times is ever want to feel better about yourself, have your mom post a picture of you on her Facebook wall because all her friends will blow you up. Oh, I heard she just graduated and got a new job. Isn't she great. Oh, you have such a beautiful like, you want to talk about like boosting your self esteem, post a picture or tag your mom in it. And all of a sudden everybody out of there like rafters is like, your beautiful, you're wonderful. So if you ever need a self esteem boost, go ahead and do that.

Amy
Exactly. Just have your mom post a picture of you on Facebook. It's come directly from the experts at Epic and

Jess
Boost their self confidence 101

Amy
Unless your mom just has awful, awful friends and in that case we cannot help you.

Jess
Skip to your grandma. Because she propably has Facebook now. Oh, I know. I we just had a conversation with like my brothers, my brother and his girlfriend and they're like early 20s. And her grandmother's on Facebook. And we laugh all the time, because I'll text her. It'll be like, what is your grandmother posting? And she's like, look at this family group chat, because their entire family group chat is like, What is she doing? Has anyone called her lately this? Who's checking up on her this time? I'm like, that's actually hilarious.

Amy
Well, it's funny because like my dad, I love my dad, he has been in he's owned his own business for over 30 some years, blah, blah, blah, whatever. But he has instructions to get to his Gmail, written next to his computer. And I was trying to teach him how to use the Google suite and how to do docs and how if you put it on the Google suite, and he did it in Google Docs, you could get it on his other computer, and all of this stuff, and I had it all set up. And I swear it took us 20 minutes for me to tell him how to get on a Google screen share to hang out so I could do this for him.

Jess
Oh, I don't get me wrong. Love My dad to death. Technically, like still types with two fingers,

Amy
Yes, my dad still has a flip phone

Jess
So his, I don't know if it's his office manager, I really don't know someone at their company mandates that they all get new iPads, new phones new whatever within a year of the new version coming out and like my dad's like, like he's the Vice President he also is still a Senior Project Manager so he still needs like blueprints and stuff. So when he first got he got an iPad Pro, and when he first got the iPad Pro, he's like, I kid you not. He's like, how do I turn this thing on? And he like puts it up like, maybe two inches from his face and I'm like, I'm like dad. Out here out here please out for farther from your face. Um, but I think as technology just gets smarter, this is gonna sound terrible. technology gets harder for them to use. Social media doesn't look that confusing.

Amy
All right, well, right, like

Jess
everything's labeled.

Amy
Exactly and, and also social media, it's social. It's, it's something that you can pick up as you go. It's like having to be in a digital community. But it also is similar to being in a real community. Like, you're not going to make friends if you don't interact with anyone. And it's the same on social media, you're not going to make friends if you don't engage. Yeah. So how about you talked to me a little bit about community engagement? And how important that is for growing your own social channels?

Jess
Yeah, community engagement is huge. Um, so for like an everyday person. It's just like seeing the picture of one of your high school friends on a pretty vacation like, Oh, I hope Aruba was fun. Like, Oh, that looks so pretty, like, look how clear the water is like, oh, horseback riding on the beach. I want to do that. But in a business, it's um, you know, someone comments on your post answering that comment. answering their question, invite, like. If people like your posts and they haven't liked your page inviting them to like your Facebook page. Um on Twitter engaging with people who retweet things that you tweet. So like if I say if I put out something saying like, Oh, you know, my favorite animal is a turtle and you retweet it and you're like, I love turtles and then I could just comment on that saying like, Oh my gosh, like let's be friends Not that I would.

Amy
Or I retweet turtles suck dolphins forever.

Jess
Exactly. So then, but like, build conversation. So like one thing that I always tell people is that social media supposed to be social? You're supposed to have conversations on it.

Amy
Right? We that's something people forget all the time. So media is social. Jess say it for me one more time.

Jess
Social media is social and for the love of all thing social. We should start using social to build positive environments. To Like, you know, educate people, to educate people correctly. And to just be present especially with like, the world we're all living in now where everyone's like, social distancing quarantining COVID and am I gonna be to leave my house if you can't?

Amy
Yeah, you can't make that in person connection but we are in the age of social media. That doesn't mean you can't make that connection.

Jess
Exactly make it I think

So, like I perfect example. I um, I love Etsy. I've loved Etsy for forever, because I would rather support a small business than like a big bulk business

Amy
on Etsy. It's like that small business is Lauren in her living room sewing you a mask like it is?

Jess
Yes, exactly. For small, so like, I bought some. What did I buy from her. I bought key chains from this one girl. She really pretty, like Lilly Pulitzer inspired key chains and like we live in the state of Delaware. Delaware is a weird shape. I have looked for a Delaware shaped key chain. That is accurate. I wish I had my keys on me that is accurate for I kid you not at least two years, at least. So I found this girl on Etsy. I followed her on Instagram. I originally started I think I bought something that wasn't the state key chain, I bought something else. Like another key like a about a pen holder that like clips to your bag. It's super cute. Um, so I bought one of those. And she was like she posted that she does states and one of the states she had was Delaware. I immediately messaged her on Instagram and it was like, I have been looking for a Delaware key chain that is geographically accurately shaped for literally years. And that like I kid you not at least once a week. I have like a small Instagram conversation with her about like crazy customers she's had, like, she's moving and I like, messaged her. I was like, good luck on your move. She's like, Oh my god, I don't know how to pack my sewing machine, or my clothes. And I like messaged her back. And I was like, Oh, this is what I used to move on. Like, it's bizarre. But if you think about it, like that's what social media is.

Amy
Making friends on Social media is kind of like making friends in real life. You have to put in yourself out there. And you can't just you can't just call up somebody and be like, hey, so we had that hello a few weeks ago. Do you want to go help me move my sofa like that? How it works in real life friendship, and that's not how it works in social media, like you need to build slowly over time. And I think that that's something great that

Jess
Yeah. And I think like, anything that you would do for yourself, you can do for a business. I always I like to use the example that like so I'm half Filipino, my half of my mom's family lives in the Philippines. A good chunk of my direct family lives allover the United States. And we don't necessarily talk every day or text every day or anything every day. But being friends with them on Facebook, like the Philippines is a 24 hour flight from here. No thank you. I'm new. But like I, the relatives that I've met that live over there, I get regular updates on them all the time.

Amy
So it's like you're still in touch but you're not.

Jess
Yes.Like I know what's going on enough to know that like, oh, let me text her. Let me send her an email. But like the same thing goes for like a business. Like if you have customers who are constantly coming back, who are always leaving you reviews who are tagging you in their posts who are saying what great customer service you have. You want to be engaging with them because you want them to come back and you want them to refer you. I like you know, it's easier in some businesses than others but you want to build your own little community of people who support you and support your brand, I think around this area that we have, there are a lot of really like cute boutiques that I shop at. And I know that you know, some of them that have such a great following because the women that run these boutiques know their customers, not just from like, Instagram and Facebook, but like if I were to walk in the store, they would know my name, they would potentially like there have been times I've walked into a store and they've been like, How do you like that Tumblr? And I'm like, I ordered that online and picked it up when you weren't here, but because they're packaging all the orders. They know that I bought it like they maybe that just means that I shopped too much. But but it's the same concept. If you're a lawyer, if you're using lawyer, if you're a financial institution, if you are a nonprofit, if you can engage with the people who are supporting you and you support them. They'll bring their friends. They'll bring their acquaintances. They'll talk about you to people that they meet on vacation

when they leave when they go on vacation. Like, it's, I like I should just get this plastured to my wall.

I am a big supporter of Maslow's hierarchy of needs. It's like one thing that I'm like, everybody needs to understand that. Yes. One of the basic needs is to be wanted and loved and like, what's better than a brand new love loving you back?

Amy
Well, exactly. So my twin sister, she turned me on to this one little boutique in our hometown, and I had never heard of them before. But my god over COVID when they had to close down when they weren't allowed to have anybody in store, they had their best month ever because of social media. Yeah, and they up their social media posts, they did more social lives. Like they did all this stuff and may literally had one of their best month was April and May have This year, whether two best months, they surpassed all of their sales simply because they engage their customers. And their customers want them to stay and succeed. So they are they're engaging with them. So it was like kind of this amazing look at what social media can really do when you leverage it correctly.

Jess
Absolutely. So I think I think COVID and where we go with COVID will kind of dictate how social media will change. And I also think that just people being creative about using social media to reach their customer base to maintain their business will keep social media around, it's not going anywhere.

Amy
No and there is no one one post fits all type of formula kind of like I know I asked you about the anatomy of a great post earlier, but honestly, it's it's you learning your customers, you knowing who you're speaking to, and being able to focus your messaging to them specifically to resonate and it's that that's like a core marketing value and that is transposed into digital marketing to SEO to social. And it's just I think it's knowing your customer, knowing what they need and knowing how you provide it to them. And regardless of what platform you use, I think that is the key. And that I think, is what social has kind of brought to that forefront.

It's made it much easier and so much it's it's kind of made the consumer and the producer i don't

i have a big science determined my head that I want to you don't think it's right. I want to say symbiotic relationship. I think that's right. I think it's symbiotic. Yeah,

Jess
I think that's right. Yeah. I think back to like high school biology for that.

Amy
Well, exactly like they taught me about the mitochondria is the powerhouse of the cell, but I'm not sure about the

Jess
Symbiotic relationship.

Amy
Social media and regular media.

Jess
No, but I definitely I think I

I like we have this I think we have this conversation like a week or so ago about like newspapers. And I'm like the only person in my direct family and I've got about 10 that still gets the newspaper is my grandmother. Of 10 of us. One person gets the paper. I like I think that print media is super important. It really is. But I also think that social media is starting to take a prevalence also, because if you think about it, like I feel like our generation, and I'm doing things I never thought I would do before. Our generation is more eco conscious. I just bought a ton of reusable Ziploc bags and I love them because they're dishwasher safe and they're microwave safe. I'm gonna put

Amy
They're the dishwasher safe?

Jess
Well, I bought ones that were dishwasher safe because I.

Amy
Tell me how it goes. Tell me how it goes

Jess
So like one thing about me if I can't put it in the dishwasher, I don't want it

Amy
Well, I grew up without a dishwasher. So I'm like forcing myself to put stuff in the dishwasher, like I know goes against my dad's.

Jess
If it doesn't go in the dishwasher, it's not getting pulled off the shelf and put in my cart.

But I've always over dishwasher safe, but I think about it about how much I use those bags, and how much plastic I'm not using because of this. And I think that social media is great because you can post promotions and stuff online. And there's no paper there's no trees being used. There's no like ink, because it's all digital. It's on your phone.

Amy
It's a very green form of marketing.

Jess
It is I don't want to yeah, on Yeah, it is.

Amy
I mean I don't want to get into how much

Jess
carbon emission and

Amy
everything carbon emissions that Facebook and Twitter are put out there but like on a small business scale, it's much greener for you to post on social

Jess
and and it's cheaper

and cheaper. Facebook is free.

Amy
Well, it's Free for your organic but then even your paid and your ads. You can target so specifically, it's insane.

Jess
Yeah, that's like a whole other podcast.

Amy
Yeah, well, that's whole other, I'm so sorry. What do you have for half an hour? I am not a very good host, Jessica Burton, thank you so much for joining us today. I really enjoyed putting you in the hot seat. I asked you a bunch of questions. You were not prepared for me to ask you. And you did it with alacrity and a sense of just enthusiasm that I really loved. So thank you very much.

Jess
Thank you all for tuning in this week. We hope this theory is relative to your marketing means make sure you subscribe to get notified of our latest episodes.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai