Hello, and welcome to the Theory of Marketing Relativity Podcast. I'm Jess Burton, a marketing specialist here at Epic Marketing Consultants Corporation. Let's talk all things marketing and merchandising with our Epic team. Today, we are here with our Corporate Director Ann Manley again. Ann thank you for joining me.
Ann Manley:Well, Jess thanks for having me on the show again, when I saw the topic, I was kind of like, ooh, Jess, we've been through this over the last few weeks.
Jess:Oh my gosh, seriously, guys, as corporate director, you definitely get the you're I feel like you're definitely like the air traffic controller of crisis communications here like Nancy puts down the hammer on what needs to happen and you just dole out the tasks
Ann Manley:that I love the air traffic controller that's like,I like that. I think, oooh. I'm like, Okay, I'm gonna start describing myself as the air traffic controller. I'm like, Okay. I've Oh, I have described myself before as you might be a little too young for this, as Julie from The Love Boat, she was like, she would direct people to the fun on The Love Boat. So come this way to the Lido Deck for drinks. So, I tend to be like, okay, Nancy has said, all hands on deck, I'm gonna need boom. And or Nancy texts me and says, we're dark, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, All right, everybody, before we hit the stop button, who can move What?
Jess:Exactly? I feel like, I feel like Julie is more like the fun stuff you get to dole out.
Ann Manley:Yes.
Jess:Air traffic controllers when we need like, and I feel like crisis is such a serious word. Like I don't ever, I feel like I put such emphasis on the word like, crisis and like, action plan because they sound so like they're such like serious things. But like when I feel like when we handle them, I feel like it should be like, the scene and like, and this is so weird. I'm like, weirdly like a Jurassic Park fan. Like the scene and like the New Jurassic Park movies, where they're, like, freaking out, because all the dinosaurs are getting loose. Like, I feel like it should be like that. But instead, we're like, tech tech type, click, click, click, type type, click click, and I'm done.
Ann Manley:Yep, it really is. When when we see something come up and over. And I honestly when, when we took when we took Nancy's class, however, many years ago, that was, um, my client had we had a small crisis communication that we had to deal with. And I learned so much doing like, real time. Crisis calm with light, and I'm like, Oh, my goodness. So my partner, Lynette who I still owe drinks to, um, we like discovered something on like, a fundraiser they were doing and it was not worded correctly, and we had to get stuff to them stat to reword.
Jess:Oh, yeah, it was like, not PC.
Ann Manley:Not at all it was that's
Jess:I forgot about that.
Ann Manley:And it was like, nine o'clock at night when we were like realizing this. But of course, something that I have learned working at Epic is that it doesn't matter the time of day anymore.
Jess:Yeah.
Ann Manley:When it's gonna hit the fan. It just hits the fan.
Jess:Oh, 100%
Unknown:I'm thankful for the tools in our Epic bag that we have, so that we can monitor monitor that, you know, for for our clients, because you and I have been through some crisises especially the last few weeks, but then even like, a couple years ago, where Why is it always on Twitter? Why do I always feel like Twitter is like, the root of crisises. So you know,
Jess:I were like, yeah, with like Facebook and Instagram and stuff like that, like, and part of it is that like our Epic the Epic way of doing things is that like, we tell all of our clients like full transparency is best. Like if you have someone leaving negative reviews or you people leaving positive reviews, or you people commenting on stuff, your best option is to always respond to them. Like don't delete it, because then people are gonna
Unknown:never ever, ever, ever, ever I cannot stress enough to never ever, ever, ever, ever ever delete a review.
Jess:Well, so even like, this is so terrible, but like, even like, something as simple as like, a restaurant or like, a nail salon or, like somewhere that, like it doesn't like, I shouldn't say reviews don't matter that much, they don't matter to me as much like I generally like I'm pretty trusting with people unless you like, like one, like, you could have a bad experience, but I might go and have a wonderful experience late, but like, generally, if I already think that you're like neutral, and I see a bad review, but you've responded to it with like, thought. And, like precision, I actually think higher of you, because you've like clearly said, like, you know, if there if someone is wrong, they admit they're wrong, and they, you know, give action statements that they can work on, or if the person that's commenting is incorrect. They, you know, can say, you know, this is what happened, we'd be more like, I feel like just the customer service of it is what can really set your business apart from others.
Unknown:I mean that is just 100% if they don't come across as feeling attacked, or like betrayed by the review, and they come across is so genuine. They're like, I am genuinely sorry that you experienced this. Like we just had. I mean, you guys all know my birthday was last week. So we went out to dinner for that. And it was awful. It was it was terrible. And I told the waitstaff and I'm like, Oh, I could take social media. And, you know, leave this review. I mean, we've eaten at this place a bunch of times. And the waiters, like how was everything? And I'm like, well, do you really want to know because my food was actually cold. Like, you pulled it out of the refrigerator and served it to me, it was supposed to be street tacos. Oh, the bowl, my husband salad came in was cracked and broken. They brought wine to us in plastic cups and said they didn't have any wine cups. And I am. So I told this our waiter I was like, this is the kind of meal that I don't come back to. I will not like, it just makes you not want to come back to a place when you have something that bad. every other time I've been there. It's been amazing. And now we call it's local season down here at the beaches, because most everyone is back. So it's just us locals. And I'm like, man, where's where's the service from this summer, I want that back. The manager handled it really well. So I didn't go to social and we actually know the person handles the social for that. For that, restaurant chain. So I was going to message her like first, but they handled it in house. So but and they were genuine about it. So I I will go back because they genuinely handled like that. So I I feel the same way when if I have a bad experience somewhere and I leave a review or something, um, or one of our clients has someone that leaves like, a bad review that we're like, I'd go okay. When we onboard them, we're like, what's your crisis comms plan? Because you may say that you don', you don't need one, you're gonna need one. So, Jesss, I'm gonna check in with you. How did you discuss? You know what, because you handle the credit unions for Epic. So when you are dealing with crisis communications, like what is one of your first steps when you're talking with our, with the clients?
Jess:So we I feel like and this is funny, we just had this conversation like a couple weeks ago with someone about they were like, we have a good crisis communications process like internally so like, if something were to go wrong, like on a world scale, like a, you know, an earthquake or a wildfire or you know, a riot, God forbid, um, they have a plan for that kind of stuff, but they don't really like a lot of places don't have a social media crisis communication plan either. Um, which is also super interesting because then it like really opens the door for like, all of these like policies and disclaimers that like technically, a lot of you should have access to on your like, I know at least Facebook can let you like put it somewhere on your Facebook page or you link to it on your Facebook page. Um, but like you should have disclosures just so that like if there is like abusive or threatening language on social media, you have the right like, you can say, like, Listen, these are our community policies, we're taking this down because it's, like, defamatory. Um, but like, I feel like the way I normally like talk about it with them is like, you know, what, what do you want us to do for you, like, our job is to keep our eyes peeled and look out for things. Like, most of the time, it's a, you know, one star review on Facebook, or it's a, you know, comment on a post about, like, you know, we just launched our, you know, new, you know, youth accounts, and someone's commenting that, like, why haven't been able to log into my online banking in three days. And it's something just as simple as, like, you can just say, like, We apologize, like, We're so sorry, like, if you give up, if you send us a private message with a number, we'll have someone call you right away. Um, I feel like when we have those discussions, a lot of times, it's just the kind of the difference between, like, do you want me to email this to you because it's not time sensitive, or do I need to pick up the phone and call you because we need to come up with a plan right away. Most of the stuff we deal with on a regular basis, it's just like, people who like, forgot their password to their account and can't log in, or they're unhappy, because you know, the bank change the credit union changed, it's hours, and they're no longer open till 6pm. And they're only open till five, um, which I will say, if you are doing a great job on social, you should cover that stuff, at least two to three weeks before you actually make the change. So you can say like, you know, what, email all our members, we've posted about it on social. Um, but yeah, it's all it's so it's so much depends on the level of intensity of the issue. So I know, like, I feel like I'm trying remember, I think Nancy's like mild, difficult and, like, quite like actual crisis,
Ann Manley:Right.
Jess:Um, so like, you should break down what each of those mean to you and the client. Um, and then what the contact point is between that. Um, so like, you know, do you just get an email from us? Do you have, do you let us come up with a response? Do you want to come up with a response, 9 times out of 10, with the credit unions, we have our marketing person that we're in contact with, at the credit union come up with it, just because they have access to like, their internal documents. So like, you know, the person's called and spoken to a customer service person, they have the transcript from the call, they know what happened, they can call the customer service person and be like, you know, are you able to de escalate? Or is this person like flying off the handle, so they can get kind of some of the background information so that when you respond, you're a little more informed? Um, which is always like interesting to see, like people, when, you know, one of our clients is like, Oh, no, we handle that. No idea why they posted on Facebook,
Ann Manley:right? That they're like, Oh, okay. Oh,
Jess:and then sometimes I just want to be like, Listen, I know, you left a one star review. Can you go change that now that you've talked to who you needed to talk to
Unknown:They jump right to that, you know, one star before anyone can kind of get to handling it, but it happens because when people are upset, they get, they're impulsive. They're ready. I am this same way.
Jess:Now I will say I did like coach my parents through. Well so they so my parents had wanted to do this huge renovation on the house. They were trying to get there. They literally the only thing they had to do was sign the papers for the loan at the bank. And like, they had made an appointment or the person was supposed to, like fax the papers over to my dad on like a Monday, he still hadn't gotten them by Thursday, my parents were headed down the beach. Luckily, there's a branch down at the beach. Um, but on Thursday, my mom was POed because she was like this construction is supposed to start Monday and if we don't sign this loan, we can't start construction on Monday. So we, um, I ended up telling her I said, listen, scroll Facebook, I was like typing. I literally like coached her through like start typing this stuff into Facebook, go to their website, like five times. Within the next 20 minutes on Facebook, you'll get a Facebook ad for them. If they're running Facebook ads, you'll get a Facebook ad for them. And she's like, okay, and I'm like when you see that Facebook ad you need to comment on it, that you were supposed to sign the details for your I was like, you can include the number if you want I don't really care. But I was like you know you you were supposed to sign the papers for your you know, home equity loan and the papers weren't the papers. Weren't sent properly. And now blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I was like, and the reason you do it on an ad is because that ad is going to run and more people are going to see that ad, then they would see a regular post. And my mom is like what? Yeah, I'm like, yeah, so within like, an hour, she had, um, someone had commented, had given her a phone number, or had asked her for her phone number. And they had set up an appointment like that Saturday down the branch at the beach, um, for my parents to come in and sign the papers for their loan. And I'm like, I was like, I'm okay with it. It's like, the person severely drops the ball. Like, they were supposed to send my parents the papers on Monday, that my parents never got them. Like it was Thursday it so I was
Unknown:Exactly where is it? So yeah, I completely agree with that. I get frustrated with the pull the trigger and 10 seconds, because, you know, I didn't get what I want. Like, let us let us help you let us try to de escalate this before anything else and then, then if you're still in, then then I get it.
Jess:So I'm like, I feel like working this job has made me I'm like covering a lot of financial institutions and credit unions has made me like appreciate like when my bank when my bank when I call my bank, and I'm like, there's a fraudulent charge. And like the person on the phone is like super nice, because I'm, I'm like in my head, I'm like, it is very possible that you just got screamed at because, like, I feel like I am probably the nicest person on the other end of customer service. Like I've had to like deal with people on Facebook, who you can't tell talk off that ledge because they're
Ann Manley:I am way more patient than I used to be. I Four days of waiting for like a loan. Like, this wasn't just don't know if it's cuz I'm so much older now. And my family may disagree with me on this. I feel like can be way more patient now. Especially over the last six, seven months when I'm like, Oh, no, I get it. I understand. Mm hmm. No, no, no, no, I understand. It's please stop apologizing. I really do. If one thing I'm going to get is because yes, you have to cancel my haircut. Because you have please cancel it. I if you? Yes, I'm totally okay with that. I just, I am I'm a little more patient, but four days, four days of waiting and like like a couple thousand dollars. My parents are taking off the back wall of their house.
Unknown:Yeah. I feel as if we. Yeah, exactly. I'm like this just a little bit more than, than like, getting your car loan or something that you're adding
Jess:It's a like full kitchen remodel, and the installation and the conversion of an extra room into like an in-laws. So it's like, this isn't a small, like, we're gonna redo the deck.
Unknown:Right. But so I I'm super appreciative of full transparency, and just be in communication with me, don't ghost me for days. When I have a question. When I have a question out there. Make sure you have the tools that you need. And here we have we have several listening tools to see so we get we get pinged by Facebook, when there's a message we get pinged by our our Sprout Social that there's this and we get and I get pinged with the listening tool Meltwater.
Jess:Yes, that also even, even without all of that stuff like people should, like I feel like another good way to be on top of all that is to like, regularly check like Yelp, even if you don't have a Yelp page, or you have one of those like, you should always search your company or your like where you're working like on Google. And like at least check the first like five pages for like erroneous websites that like could have your information
Unknown:on there. Got to check it. Yep, you have to check it. And Yelp makes it it's a little tricky to find your reviews on Yelp right now. Because you have to kind of scroll to the bottom and then put, they don't put them in date order unless you ask them to. So you could just be seeing the same review from months ago, because it's a five star and they put it up top. Yep, you have to get in there. Click that newest to oldest to see and you're like, Oh, right. This came in 30 days ago, and we didn't see it.
Jess:And the thing that I always tell people too, is that like, you know, Google, my business is great. Google is for the business like it's for you to get your business out there. Whereas Yelp is for your customer. yelp gears itself to the consumer. So Yelp is gonna prioritize getting reviews from your consumer and like that not I'm not saying they make it a little bit more difficult, but like, they, they also want transparency if they want the bad reviews mixed in with the good ones, but like, Yeah, because it is a little more I think it is a little more difficult to get Yelp reviews removed. Um, because some of our clients in a in their crisis communication plans for you know, social media quote unquote crisis, have in there that if a specific person and their businesses mentioned, it has to come down. Um, because that's basically just like,
Ann Manley:Putting people's information out there
Jess:Tt is, like, I wouldn't like like, if I was going and saying Ann Manley did a terrible job. Like, you know, a lot of like, cussing, a lot of places will say, like, Listen, you can post a bad review, but like, you have to leave, you know, the name of the person out of it. Like, you know, there was, although there was, I do remember the beginning was it Oh, my God, a couple months ago, a local wedding venue, down fast now.
Ann Manley:That was the fastest takedown I've ever seen.
Jess:I think you and I were like clicking around, like during the workday and it was gone in like a couple hours, they took it down. Because like someone who the owner's wife or
Ann Manley:ex-wife,
Jess:ex wife or something said something that was like, not good. Very, very, it was it was very offensive.
Ann Manley:And because a friend of mine who has a hair salon was like, I will not be working for the venue any longer, we will not be associated with it. I was like, I think I text that screenshot. Jess what's going on? I went to The Knot, and the Wire and it, they were gone. They were gone. Like it was like an unleashed of whatever. And then and the owner, the gentleman he it took too long for him to put a statement out for one thing. So yes, having that crisis communication plan is so essential, because that letter should have went out the second, he got that first post of being notified that this person said this. And it, it was like four days, I want to say it was several days. So any time your organization has something like that you really have got to be acted on top of it, to get your statement out to your clients, to your employees. Because to me that will also affect your employees, like, Who am I working for? Why don't they have my back. So on Facebook, you can and I do believe you can add like a PDF of your crisis comms to your Facebook page for people to click on so that they know that if you do mention someone or you use some colorful language, um, that they are going to, that is going to get taken down. But just don't take down a bad review. Because it's a bad review, you got to take the good with the bad and I'm, I'm a big proponent of you know, everyone wants their social media to be you know, all bright and shiny. And sometimes it can't be. And sometimes your true colors come out on how you handle communication with someone who isn't happy to me, that tells tells me more of who you are, and how you're handling it when things are good. Because anyone can handle the good. That's awesome. You're, you're up high on your roller coaster and you're doing awesome. It's, it's how you handle that low part. I love working with some of our clients because they they really do have like a handle on that and they get they take it personally and they look it up and they get to the root of the problem. They're like, okay, we found this, can you please send this message and this is my direct line to call me to get it fixed. And I appreciate that so much more than you then directing me to, um, you know, the 800 number I've been trying to call and blah blah you know, not getting any not getting any response with that. So
Jess:absolutely
Ann Manley:show who you are by how you handled that. How you handled that crisis comm. So, but I also know that the bad review part that's just one part of like, what we do at Epic, that part of their crisis communications if there's like a bad Twitter post or a bad review, but if something's going on in the world, we you have to watch that too. That's a whole other level of learning to handle the crisis comms and you need to have your plan for like, we're already planning for Election Day, you know,
Jess:So, I have this like, and my boyfriend's a teacher. So he doesn't think about this, like he's ironical. He's a history teacher. He thinks about like the election in a different way, like as an educational standpoint, and I think it is like, think of it as like, we need to hit the red button as of like, yes. 9pm on election day. And he was like, Well, why are you like, I was, like, you know, we're advising our clients that like, on election day, in the day after, we should really just kind of let sleeping dogs lie, you know, nobody's going to be paying attention to anything that you're going to be posting. Because everybody's gonna be posting on the day of the election, I voted, whether they did it mail in ballot, whether they went and did it in person, all that kind of stuff. Everyone's gonna be posting about, like, you know, I voted all this junk. The next day, everybody's gonna be talking about the results. Yes, or the lack of results, because of all the mail in ballots,
Ann Manley:right.
Jess:So, you know, because I, I've read plenty of places that they said the night of the election, we're probably not going to know who won,
Ann Manley:right? We're not going to know that. And we're also going to have to monitor because people, there are people who are going to be upset. So we're going to be watching the news, see what is going on in the areas of where our clients? Do they need to put out a statement that they have to close the doors? Did they have to you, you know, that they're doing this, that they're monitoring the situation that you're all clear, so,
Jess:right, he was like, so I had Heidi on a couple weeks ago, and Verity, with all the fires happening in Washington and California in that area, they had to close one of their they said, you know, we have a couple, um, you know, people, our employees who can't who are currently relocating, because their houses are in danger. She said, you know, we might need to close a branch, because of smoke. She's like, not that anyone was coming in anyway. But like, you know, we might have to do that, um, you know, we had, they had said, you know, there's supposed to be a peaceful protest here tonight, they're recommending that, like, you know, back, it feels like 15 years ago, but it was like, a month ago. Um, you know, she said, There's supposed to be a peaceful protest, but they're suggesting the businesses close up early to, you know, keep traffic at a minimum, and, you know, whatever. So they were closing early, they send us over an email saying, We're closing early today, can you guys get this up on social, um, and really, it was just saying, like, our one branch is closing, all of our other branches are open, you can always access your accounts online. This is the like, you know, customer support number will reopen tomorrow with normal hours, um, again, that like, super, super transparency as to like, what's going on? why they're doing things, you know, and then the whole like, I always, this is so corny. And maybe it's just because I'm like getting older. I've watched a million Hallmark movies. Like, you know, we really appreciate your membership, just like something about that sentence, like just makes me think like, yeah, they thought enough to put it in there. Like, they really do appreciate their patience and their membership.
Ann Manley:Well, and that's that that's how I feel. That's exactly it. And I feel like, you know, the election is several weeks away. So now is the time to make sure you have your communication plan in place. And that everyone on your team knows what that plan is. And if you have a marketing firm running things for you, that they have your plan, or they've already messaged you about their suggestions, like we've already messaged, you know, we're working on messaging our clients and like, Hey, this is our plan. This is what we feel we're going to be doing for those few days if we need to. If we need to not post longer and monitor more, we will, we will let you know. But November 2 is not the day to do that. It's like it's now it's weeks ahead of time to make sure you have those plans in place. And it's like you said, We watched the escalation scales. It's a just a minor crisis. Is it a whole mega crisis? You know,
Jess:Well, it goes back to like the beginning of the pandemic, like we kind of said, as soon as, at least where where our clients were located. As long as as soon as soon as things started to shut down. We said okay, we're gonna pause what we're doing here. And the only thing going out is going to be about your operating procedures. Because we have clients who, you know, consistently taught like they put out a considerable amount on social media. Yes. And we had literally anyone who works in marketing will tell you, everyone has had to completely redo their marketing plans for 2020. And all of us are sitting here in October halfway through October of 2020 going I'm not going to start my like, 2021 plan till like December because who knows what could change by then
Ann Manley:Well exactly can see like the outcome of the election? What's going on with so many things between now between the last, what, 12 weeks of this year that's left can just flip on a switch. So planning for 2020 for 2021 is so tricky. But I feel like the one thing that you can plan for is your crisis communication and have that written out in each section. How do you even want it handled?
Jess:Even if it's just like, like, an I this, I just remember, I remember the beginning of the pandemic, and I'm like, laughing because I feel like I'm talking about like, something that happened like five years ago,
Ann Manley:I know, It's just like 5 months ago,
Jess:or five months ago. But I just remember the beginning of the pandemic, one of our clients telling us, like, really, you know, where do you want to go from here, and her saying, we have an executive meeting on Thursday, we're dusting off the document that was written when we were founded, like, however many years ago, she's never had, like most I feel like most places of business depending on where located. access their crisis comes based on like, where they are geographically. So like, I'm sure if you are a business in Texas, you have got some, you know, major things for you know, heat waves, and tornado, especially if you live in Tornado Alley, tornadoes, whatever, I'm sure if you are, you know, business in the Carolinas or like Florida, you have a hurricane plan that you access regularly. If you're here on the East Coast, you've got everything under the sun, hurricanes, tornadoes, snow storm,
Ann Manley:snow storms, nor'easters
Jess:Nor' easter's the whole nine yards, so like, you know, it's when she said, like, we're gonna have to dust off the pandemic portion. She's like, we have one, it's never been touched. Um, and she's like, We're going into this meeting with the men with the mentality that we're not leaving until we figure this out, which I thought was great. Because it's like, okay, whether you're in there for two hours, or 12 hours, at the end of it, you're going to have a plan. Um, right. But I think that even if you make a plan, and you never use it, or you make a plan, and you change it, I think it was like, another thing I do remember from Nancy's class was her saying that it needs to always evolve because your business is always evolving. So your plans need to change?
Ann Manley:Absolutely. I just remember, like, you need like, at least you need to have like a contact like, like, so remember, you probably remember with Trent because he's in his 20s. But I just remember, like, when my mom was like homeroom mom for like my first and second grade class, and like, she had the phone tree. So like, if something were to happen, the teacher would call my mom and another mom. And both of those moms had a list of like, 10 other parents that it was their job to call and let them know, um, like, what was going on in class, like, oh, that like, and it was something as simple, it could be something as simple as like, we're having a we want a pizza party, or it could be like, there's a lice outbreak in class. But like, that's the general basis of a crisis communications plan internally and externally, especially if you're working with outside agencies. So like, if you have your web developer, that isn't in house, if you have your marketing department that's not in house. Um, if you have freelancers or contractors, you need to make sure that they're also taking care of in your crisis comm plan that you're calling them. I always think that like, you know, when you make a decision, you should probably call your web developer and put a banner up on your website, Right. Get that banner up there. I know, I know, it takes few minutes, but you got it, you have to get that banner up. Um, but I think the biggest key and the biggest takeaway for having when you are in a crisis is to make sure you have that plan. And whether you have to dust it off in 10 years, or 100 years. That it's there. And that wave reference, reference it when when you need it, it's never a good idea to have to come up with it on the fly like you you have to have it. I know there are times when we have to be quick thinking because sometimes it is a random Twitter troll or whatever, but we have to do get that plan.
Jess:Yes, I think it's always and this is I feel like I've always just kind of like lived my life with this like mentality. Like I work with high school students and like the bag that I bring to like our football games and stuff is full of stuff. So much crap that parents have totally been like, why do you have that? And like, my answer is always I, I'd rather have it and not use it than need it not have it.
Ann Manley:It's like having a Mary Poppins carpet bag.
Jess:Exactly.
Ann Manley:You have to have the carpet bag, or the Jennifer Lopez belt from the wedding planner.
Jess:Yeah,
Ann Manley:Where she's got like, clothespins
Jess:maybe that's where I love movie
Ann Manley:I do, too. I would just watched it the other day. So it's why it's like, in my head, and I love Peanut M&Ms. And I had some today so yeah, but I yeah, it's
Jess:yeah it's being prepared
Ann Manley:Being prepared. What is that the Boy Scouts or Who is it?
Jess:I think it's boy scouts I wouldn't know I'm not a Boy Scout.
Ann Manley:I wouldn't know either. And my father in law worked for them for like 35 years. I should know but I'm so sorry to whoever but be prepared. Be prepared for have it on your website. Be prepared having it on all your social channels like not just Facebook not just Facebook and just remember that, you know, oh, okay, so, I'm sorry, I'm going to bring up Peloton and I swore in my head that I wasn't going to, but I my one favorite instructor, Jess Simms. She says how you do anything, is how you do everything. No. And it is absolutely one of my favorite quotes that I have stuck in my head
Jess:I'm going to write that down. So I have like sticky notes of quotes. And this is something I adopted from like, college like my college dorm wall, like next to my desk was just like a sticky, it was just no like quotes or quotes. I'll put this next to my Dolly Parton quote,
Ann Manley:See, but in all honesty, when I look at how people respond to things, that is what's going through my head because how they respond to that is Hmm, well, how are they going to respond to this then? Or how are they going to handle this other thing? If they handled this minor thing this way? What are they going to do if it gets worse? Like exactly, I honestly feel that like I take that quote with me every day like a good one. Isn't it though? She's so amazed she kills me every Saturday morning at 10 o'clock. But
Jess:it's so yeah, like so with crisis communication plans are just like your giant like I use this because I'm like a like I was born in the early 90s. And I like I am a millennial, like, I grew up with all this technology change and crap. But like I always picture just like the big binder full of everything. I'm such a binder person. It's funny, it's actually alarming. So in love, so like sidebar, I my seniors I majored in psychology and we had to do like senior research. And my professor was like when you submit it, just make sure that everything's organized. I went and bought a brand new binder, I printed out all my things printed all my studies, all my research all my data, I put it in this binder, I made a really nice pretty binder, like insert like picture for the front of it. Um, I made like little tabs that went in it that like went with it. And she , I got an A on it, but she proved on it. Well, she was like I like so she had the jumbo sticky notes. And she wrote all of her notes on the jumbo sticky notes. She was like this was just so pretty. I couldn't bear to like write on it.
Ann Manley:Oh my gosh, that's hilarious.
Jess:I actually still have it it's somewhere in like the like file folder file box of like random files that I will probably never need but I'm keeping anyway
Ann Manley:But need a photo of that so we can put that on social
Jess:oh my god. so neat.
Ann Manley:Yeah. Um, oh I love it
Jess:Yeah, like you just need to have like a basic plan. And honestly, like, you don't have to come up with one on your own like
Ann Manley:No,
Jess:Like, if they don't reinvent the wheel like if you know somebody or like if you worked at a company and you're so friendly with them, or you found one online that sounds good, like change it to fit your business and like reword it and rework it like there's no like, I'm not gonna lie to you a business crisis communications plan is not a two page Word document.
Ann Manley:No. It's pages
Jess:It should be a hefty document,
Ann Manley:It should need a binder.
Jess:If you were to print it out. It says your binder an entire pack of paper.
Ann Manley:It should it should like you should have that can cause you need for each type of crisis there is and whether it is just if it's a customer service crisis is it a something out of your control, like, with like a hurricane or weather related event and you have to close or is it you know, you're having to close all your stores cuz I don't know, you just have to make sure that you have your guidelines set, you have your communications handled, and you and you have this and you're sharing it with the team of people who run it your your like all of your points. So don't just have it in your desk, make sure everyone has the copy that they need.
Jess:Exactly
Ann Manley:One thing you have to, you know, kill a tree with it, because it's you can have it digitally. But just in case the cloud breaks down, have one printed copy of it.
Jess:Exactly.
Ann Manley:But just make sure that it's there and have and have your social media policy on your social media channels so people can see to make sure that if you're being threatening, if you are any any of that, I'm sorry, that's gonna come down. And people be like, why are you deleting me? And I'm gonna be like, well, you used this person's name. And that seemed very threatening. So yeah, I'm gonna take that down. As much as I love to use that word. Oh, I can't have that on social. So I'm sorry.
Jess:Well, it's like one of those things like, you need to have like, the guidelines for identifying the type of crisis like and how like big it is, like, is this Can this be handled by one person? Is this worldwide, then if you if your company is big enough, you need to think about like, what is each departments responsibility?
Ann Manley:Well, just I was just actually I was just gonna say I'm like, and don't forget, like, while you have your crisis comm for, you know, what happens with one thing, you also need to have that crisis comm for your employees, and those those social media policies for employees, because, you know, a lot of people feel that your social media, they can share whatever. Yeah, well, make sure you have that statement out there and be like, hey, like, make sure you have a statement like on your social saying, well, just because I work there, this is not the views of this companies their mine, actually, because I know, I think I think like a lot of universities have to do that, especially during very political times
Jess:It's a very big one for like Twitter, because I know that there are a lot of people that like, they are, you know, seen as like professors or you know, whatever is at schools and colleges and universities. So they hold a platform. Um, and that statement in itself, like covers them saying, like, while I teach a class in whatever the opinions Shown here are of my own and do not reflect the opinions of the organization that I work for.
Ann Manley:Right. That think and I feel like as also as a company, you need to have some guidelines and be like, Okay, if you're going to be sharing that, you know, make sure you're not being make sure you're not being offensive and using derogatory content, you know, posting about your employee, like your coworkers using their names. It's the same thing for anybody else. Yeah, you have to have to be a little bit maybe even a little bit. I don't know tough on your employees but because it is their personal spaces, but just make sure that you have a clear cut line for your employees
Jess:have one big thing coming out now is that like, so TikTok is huge, and I am on it more than I care to admit, but I have somehow found my way into teacher TikTok. And a big thing with teachers now is they're getting in trouble because one the posting well not because they're posting on TikTok. But because now people are questioning Well, if you're posting on tik tok, are you teaching my kid.
Ann Manley:Right?
Jess:And like, you know, I saw TikTok today where the teacher was like, if you are a teacher, one you need to check with your you know, your administrators and your district. But timestamp your when you post, they were like, that's the fastest way to kind of cover yourself is like, well, I posted this at nine o'clock at night. Like I'm not teaching at nine o'clock at night.
Ann Manley:Right.
Jess:Um, because, you know, now we all know that, like, they're scheduling programs, and you can save things to drafts and blah, blah, blah. Um, but like a big thing like that, you know, some of these teachers are discovering is that like, they need to do a little more. You know, just being careful about what they're doing so they don't get in trouble.
Ann Manley:Right. And why is my kid supposed to be on a zoom at
1:10 and that teacher just posted a TikTok at 1:10 I'm be like aren't you supposed to be on zoom? Or wait my kids in the class? Yeah. So make sure that you do like, if you're an employee, check with your employer, what's the what's the policy for this? You know, and have that in your employee manual? Um, so it's just not sprung behind people. And they'd be like, why didn't know, I didn't know, I thought I could just do this. So,
Jess:yeah, it's, it's one of those things that like, I feel like, small businesses have the chance to really, really excel in the crisis communications department. Whereas larger companies, it takes them longer to get up that statement of apology to get out, you know, and fix the problem. Whereas, like, small businesses can, like meet you maybe not face to face, but like, they can meet you where you're at, and they can talk to you about it.
Ann Manley:Right. They can go Okay, I'm sorry, that happened to you. Let's try this again. Here's a coupon to come into our restaurant again, and let us correct this for you, let's make this a better experience for you. Or if you're shopping, you know, like in the store just shopping, or here's a just don't like invite them back. And like you said, you're absolutely correct. I think small businesses can do that, and get that out quicker. And I don't think I can say it any more. It's all about how you do communicate with your, with your customer, with your employees, be upfront, and be transparent about what you know, what your policies are, for all things. So that so that people just aren't, you know, kind of hijacked when something happens? And you're like, Well, I didn't know that. And you can be like, well, you were given this when you were hired. Yeah, we have this posted on Facebook for you. And you didn't read it. But we do have, we do have our guidelines here. I'm always I'm always amused when I see that one moms group Jess that you might chat about. And people get mad because their post was taken down. The administrator has to go in, and these women who run this page, they have jobs. And they get like, hit with so much stuff sometimes. And having to copy and paste their, their policy for that group and going Remember, you did this, this, this and this. And this is why your post was taken down. And you know, then there's comment after comment after comment after comment. And I just text you and I go just let's get the popcorn and the tea out. stuffs unfolding?
Jess:Yes, I have to say I give like some of our clients are as their business pages are members of Facebook groups. Yes. Yeah. I really think if I said that correctly. Um, but the like, wild thing to me is that like, you can 100% use that to your advantage. I have seen so many people. I remember. I think this was pre COVID. Um, there was a small business around here that had gotten so many recommendations that it was just like his wife was his secretary. And he was doing all the work himself. And everyone recommended him. He's doing such a good job, blah, blah, blah. And then all of a sudden, all the reviews or all the comments and the references turned to they never called me back, blah, blah, blah. This happened within like two days of that the wife had posted something saying like, Listen, we really appreciate all of your recommendations. She's like, and I am trying to get back to everybody. But we are two people running this business ourselves. And I am only one person who can answer the phone and I'm trying to get back to all of you as fast as I can. But at the end of the day, my family comes first. So when my kids are home from school, I hang up the phone. When my husband comes home, we make dinner together. Like she was very again the word transparent, transparent with them about please don't like rake us over the coals because we're human too.
Ann Manley:Right. And it's hard because again, people do pull that recommendation trigger so fast anymore because social media makes it so easy for us to be able to send out that thing. I know sometimes when I get really upset I will type it out. Like an email to nobody, just to get the words out of my, my mouth and out of my head. And that sometimes makes me feel better before I go and then I just I'm like, okay, I feel better I go out of my system and I'm gonna walk away right now and see how they correct this before I like actually send this to to somebody. But it's really, really easy nowadays to send to send off those the negative recommendations and reviews so easily, especially in groups, especially in groups. And I know that a lot of the administrators like to be like, please dm if you have something negative, please dm that person, your experience, yes, this this is a safe space, please. And that and I've noticed that more and more for that I tend to direct message if I see somebody needing a recommendation for something, I tend to be like, Hey, I use this, even if it even if it's like a good one. I tend to dm also, I hate getting notified if I all the 8 million people that will respond
Jess:comment after you ,
Ann Manley:I can just turn that off. I'm sorry, I'm really horrible of me. I know I'm so sorry. But Like. No, I get enough notifications with work. Exactly.
Jess:I don't care recommends this chiropractor. And Megan recommends this chiropractor and Ann recommends this one I'm recommending and I'm turning the notifications off for this post. You know, the one that's the worst is the photography one. Oh, well, I just stopped like I honestly I'm at the point where I'm like, if someone I know asks, I will send them a text or message them and say, This is who I trust visit who I photograph with. I love her work. So the other thing and now that I'm like of the age where like I'm going to weddings every year and like excessively So, um, I have less like running list of like tips so that when people ask for them, it's in a notes document in my phone, and I can just copy it and send it to them. Um, and it's random tips. Like it's not even, like they're categorized, just like random stuff I've come up with over the years. Um, and I always tell people, my one thing that I tell people about photographers, as I said, Listen, you need to go to their website, you need to go to their Facebook page, wherever they keep their images, and you need to look at the images they've done. I was like, You also need to go to Instagram, and you need to look them up on Instagram and see what venues they've shot at. I was like Better yet, go to your venues, Instagram, and see the people that have taken pictures there already. I'm a bad something you want.
Ann Manley:I always I go to the venues. And I look at that. And even though I am a photographer, I wouldn't if someone is looking for something I recommend, I always recommend my northern Wilmington, PA people who I've who I've worked with, but you're absolutely right, because I've done photographs before and edited how I edit,
Jess:Right
Ann Manley:And then the person was like, Well, a lot brighter than I thought it was going on. Like this is the work I like I showed you my work. This is how it was it was like, Okay, okay, I took it and I redid them. I didn't charge her because she, you know, was not happy with that. I mean, not everything I do is always going to be correct. I have had, you know, my ups and downs before. So I was like, Okay, well, this is what I'm going to do for you. You weren't happy with that. I'm going to fix all of this and right, fix it, redid it. And you know, I'm like, and I'm not going to charge you fully for this because it took me longer to do that. But you were not happy. So I want her to make sure that if she goes to something she's like, Well, it wasn't quite how I wanted it edit but she did fix it and you may like that, you know.
Jess:So that's the other thing too is I tell people is that's my own thing is I'm like even if you and I think part of this is like again, other aspects of my life. And my thing I'm like, way wiser than I should be at 29
Ann Manley:you really are though, in all seriousness, I mean, I was just telling Nancy yesterday, I'm like I really just need to clone Jess, I need an another Jess.
Jess:Well, I think like so the way I look at it sometimes is like just because it doesn't work for you doesn't mean it's not going to work for somebody else. Like a hot topic here in Delaware is the public school system without going into detail. There are a lot of people who are very quick to bash public, private, parochial the whole nine yards. They're very quick to just pull the trigger and say this school is the worst, these people are terrible, blah, blah, blah. Yeah. And as someone who has no children in school, and who also, like, I don't, I'm not a teacher, but like, I coach. So I'm attached to the school enough, as someone like that I say, listen, you know, my parents have always told me, they sent me to public school because it's a more accurate depiction of the world. The people that I would meet in public school are going to be more like the people that I'm going to meet in all aspects of my life.
Ann Manley:Mm hmm.
Jess:That's why we sent you to public school. Also, my public school was like, 16, I graduated the class of like, right under 500. So there were like, 2000 of us there. But I always tell people that like, I don't think I would have done good at school A. because they didn't offer this, I don't think I would have done well, here I am, who I am because of what I've gone through. And I always tell people, I'm like, while this schooling didn't work for one person, that doesn't mean it's not going to work for your kid. So like, you need to know your kid, and you need to know how they learn. And you need to know enough about that to apply it to choosing a school. And like then people probably look at my Facebook and they're like, this girl's like 25. Like, what is talking about? Just becuase You birth a human doesn't mean you know anything about public school in Delaware. See, and
Ann Manley:I've done both now. Sorry, then. It's very hard.
Jess:But that's the thing too your kids are both completely different children.
Ann Manley:Oh, my gosh, I do have two completely different kids. I do. And Trent loved, loved his school. He did. And he actually did small private, it was not for him. Big, big public school. Big public university. So good for him. Such he jam he, he flourished in those in those in those places. Yeah, Addison is the exact opposite. She loved, loved, loved, loved her small classes, but I also feel like it's why she's doing really well this year, because the class sizes are so small now but. Um, our school district did a I felt they did a really great job of communicating with us parents. At first, I was not happy with the communication.
Jess:Yeah.
Ann Manley:And then I was like, starting to, like panic come like the beginning of August. What's the plan, what's the plan what's the plan. I need to make a decision. And when it did come out, I was like, Oh, well, this this is good. And they are in constant communication with me and I just I am very appreciative of that of it. And like today, Addison is home because she has sniffles so you're not sending a kid with sniffles. But she didn't miss anything.
Jess:Right.
Ann Manley:Got on all her Zoom calls and handled it. Now she has more breaks because she doesn't have her specials and recess and whatever. But I'm just I'm grateful for I'm grateful for the communication and I and for all any anything that I do. I am a huge proponent, proponent Greg will tell you I obsessed over customer service.
Jess:Mm hmm.
Ann Manley:To the point where he's like, cuz he he's like, whatever. If I like that brand. I'm gonna go shop there.
Jess:Right.
Ann Manley:Um, I specifically don't go to certain like car dealerships, because I was treated so poorly
Jess:oh 1,000%
Ann Manley:going into it, that I told the salesman, I'm like, just so you know, I've been waiting here for 20 minutes. And every single one of you have walked past me, didn't want to communicate with me because I had my child with me. I was really interested in that car there. But I'm gonna go drive 45 minutes in the other direction and go to the other dealership over in PA and buy from them. Because Yeah, I am a huge proponent for communication and customer service. And
Jess:Well, that was with my car. I remember telling them I was like, I nanny I have small children and Miko at the time. They were small children. I was like, I have small children my car. I don't want cloth seats. I was like, you know, and my dad of course is like, well, what color car do you want? And like this was it was like the end of I bought my car at the end of July. Um, so like they were already like rolling out like the next year's vehicles. And I'm like, why would really like this blue one. Like, I love this color blue. And the first dealership we went to the guy told me Well, it doesn't come with dark like dark non cloth interiors. Right? So my dad was like, well, we're really not going to buy anything today. Whatever. We all move on with our lives. Yeah. My dad emails me like two days later he goes, do you want this car He's like the dealership. 20 minutes away from the other dealership we were at has five of them in blue with black interior, like black leather interior. Do you want this car? So we get there and we tell the guy, we're like, this is what I want. We saw on the website, whatever. And the guy was was like, you know, have you test driven it? I was like, I test driven, the whole nine yards. I was like, I really can we just buy it and go. And he's like, wow, this is really quick. And I'm like, I was like, I wanted this car up until the point where the guy the other dealership told me they don't make it with what I want. I was like, so instead of looking somewhere else to find me what I want and make a sale, he told me flat out he didn't have it, and I went somewhere else and got it.
Ann Manley:See that drives me crazy. So I have this. And I feel like we we need to be that communication sometimes for our clients to make sure that people aren't going somewhere else for that service. And then we know that communication level to make sure that when a message comes in, because we know our clients are busy, it's why they hire us to check their messages to do the research to do some searching for them. Because I don't want I don't want their clients going somewhere else. And I don't want our clients going somewhere else really try to keep the keep that communication line open to to all your clients, I can't mean how many times I've said it like 1000 times and then go through the transcript of the podcast and see how many times. And we'll try everything,
Jess:I think a great example of that. And it's funny because like I have, we have a client who does it. And I've been thinking about it a little bit lately because I'm like, so back when the whole, when the Black Lives Matter movement really like took force, all of these companies put out statements about how they're going to do better how they're going to try better, how they're going to learn more, listen harder, whatever. They put out all those statements. Now here we are. I can't do like month math, three, four, however, many months later, and I'm like, I'm thinking about it. Because the one client we have, they just posted something. So they normally do a community service day, instead of doing community service because pandemic, um, they did a day of cultural learning. Um, they invited people to come and speak like indigenous people to come speak to them, they invited, you know, different people who are experts in their fields of, I do not know how to say this, the cultures that they belong to speak to them to educate them. And not just like the CEOs and the executives, the entire company, they came to talk to all of them about indigenous peoples and about, you know, LGBTQ youth, like everything they covered, they encompassed all of it. And they, and it's one of those things where it's not necessarily self congratulatory, but they're just checking in to let you know that, like, we promised you these things, and we're upholding our promise,
Ann Manley:Right.
Jess:So it's one of those things where I'm like, we're like now I've been I've literally been thinking about this for a week now. Like, I wonder if like, this brand has done anything like I wonder if
Ann Manley:I check brands I do
Jess:any of these brands have like upheld that promise that they made like 2, 3, 4 months ago, about being, doing, living better. So I had something that piqued my interest that I'm probably gonna go like surf Facebook and social media tonight.
Ann Manley:certain brands, there are still certain brands I don't buy because of statements CEOs made three years ago. And even if like that CEO is out, I'm still like, I haven't seen anything new come out from you guys. Yeah, still not buying your brand. And, um, I do watch that very, very closely. But I think all people especially now they really do
Jess:Oh 100% and I know like, you know, it's we've lately in the last couple months have had to deal with major crisis crises crisises. Oh, yeah Um, I don't know what the correct word for that is. Crisis
Ann Manley:Crisises
Jess:whatever. Um, last
Ann Manley:We'll ask Sheryl to correct us
Jess:Sheryl's gonna get so mad at us and she listens to this.
Ann Manley:She is.. t
Jess:Um, but I mean, think about it. You had a, you know, between black lives matter, LGBTQ, the wildfires on the west coast. ridiculous amount of tornadoes, like of hurricanes in the south east.
Ann Manley:Oh, my.
Jess:That hit within a couple months. And then on top of all of that the pandemic and now the election is coming. It's like
Ann Manley:There's no better time than today. Then to sit down and make sure your crisis communication plan is written. People know where it is. And, and you have it and you have it handy.
Jess:And, and especially because this is where we're at, you need to debrief,
Ann Manley:oh my gosh,
Jess:yes. After a crisis, you need to sit down with your staff, everyone involved, you need to talk about it, talk about the things that went great. Talk about the things that didn't go so great. Talk about what you can change for the future, and write it down and add it to your physical crisis communications plan. Because if this happens in six, five or six years, it could happen in five or six months. You can look back and say, you know what this happened before? Let's see what they did then. And now you're not doing so much work and so much thinking and you can a lot that energy somewhere else.
Ann Manley:Oh, because we're all exhausted. You need that energy put to good use. We are all doing so many things. And love that debrief. Let's debrief after this just let's debrief. Let's debrief how our podcasts went today.
Jess:But yeah, like you need to at the end of the day, oh my god, I'm like, full of cliche phrases today, at the end of what crisis is you need to sit down and like, this is something that they do in PR is like at the end of like a PR run, like a summary of it. So you'll get articles and you need to do something about like that for a major crisis. I'm not saying like, a pipe broke, so we had to, like close the brain crank or while we fix the pipe, but I'm saying like, you know, there were, there was a tornado that touchdown like, what did we do? What like you need to break it down and figure out even if it's just a quick 30 minute call with all of your staff and you figure it out, although I will say 30 quick, 30 minute calls are not a thing.
Ann Manley:No, not not in Epic world. No.
Jess:But you need to like sit and debrief. I think that's a great way to improve upon and get better at what you're doing.
Ann Manley:Again, Jess for my other Jess that I like Jess Simms how you do anything, is how you do everything.
Jess:Very true.
Ann Manley:We aren't nothing but a giant cliche.
Jess:Really, we really are.
Ann Manley:We are butt thanks for talking with me again today.
Jess:No problem. I feel like as the um, what did I call you earlier as the Oh my god, what did I
Ann Manley:Oh, the air traffic controller,
Jess:As the air traffic controller. I feel like you're the perfect person to aside from Nancy herself.
Ann Manley:I know,
Jess:to talk to about Chris's communications.
Ann Manley:I it's there. There are days and I'm like, I'm like, oh, okay, guys. Because I do do I do a lot of news watching. I am always checking in messaging and going. Okay, this just came out? Who do we need to blah and it gets in it? Do we handle it? We do. So thanks for having me on again and talking about crisis and how you handle it for our credit unions today. Thanks for having me on.
Jess:Absolutely. Hopefully, I can find another fun reason to invite you back.
Ann Manley:I know I'm actually really happy
Jess:to have you back all the time.
Ann Manley:With me, I feel like the three of us need to have one and we're gonna make that happen. We're gonna we're gonna look at Dara's schedule and see ee what she's got cooking up in he blog for us.
Jess:So for sure.
Ann Manley:Thank you.
Jess:You're welcome. Thank you. Thank you all for tuning in this week. We hope this theory is relative to your marketing. Make sure you subscribe to get notified of our latest episodes.